Rethinking Forgiveness | Katharine Giovanni | 215

What does forgiveness really mean and does it always require forgiving the person?

In this insightful conversation, Amanda Russo sits down with Katharine Giovanni, forgiveness expert, award-winning author, and speaker, to explore the transformative power of forgiveness and what it truly means to let go. Together, they unpack common misconceptions about forgiveness, discuss why it doesn't mean excusing harmful behavior, and examine how unresolved resentment can quietly impact emotional well-being.

Throughout the conversation, Katharine shares practical tools for navigating forgiveness, embracing self-compassion, and releasing the emotional weight of past experiences. She also introduces a powerful perspective on forgiving the energy attached to painful situations, offering listeners a fresh way to think about healing, personal growth, and finding greater peace.

💡 In this episode, listeners will discover:

💜 Why forgiveness doesn't require reconciliation or forgetting what happened
 🧠 How resentment can quietly affect emotional and mental well-being
 ✨ The powerful concept of forgiving the energy instead of the person
 🌱 Why healing is a personal journey that doesn't follow a timeline
 ❤️ How self-compassion plays an essential role in the forgiveness process
 🗣️ Practical tools for releasing emotional burdens and moving forward
 🌟 How choosing forgiveness can create more peace, freedom, and emotional resilience

⏰ Timeline Summary:

[2:10] Amanda welcomes Katharine Giovanni and introduces a conversation that challenges common beliefs about forgiveness, healing, and emotional freedom.
[9:35] Katharine shares her personal journey and explains how life experiences led her to become a forgiveness expert and advocate for emotional healing.
[18:50] The discussion explores what forgiveness really means, why it doesn't excuse harmful behavior, and the misconceptions that often keep people stuck.
[29:55] Katharine introduces the powerful concept of forgiving the energy rather than focusing solely on forgiving the person.
[43:40] Practical strategies for navigating resentment, embracing self-compassion, and beginning the process of letting go.
[56:20] Amanda and Katharine discuss self-forgiveness, personal growth, and why healing looks different for everyone.
[1:03] Final reflections on choosing peace, releasing emotional burdens, and carrying a new perspective on forgiveness into everyday life.

To Connect with Amanda:

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Follow & Support the Podcast:

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👥 Join the Manders Mindset Facebook Community HERE!

To Connect with Katharine: 

🌐 Website: http://www.KatharineGiovanni.com

📕 Get Katharine's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Path-Forgiveness-Unlocking-Power/dp/1931109265

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Catherine

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to the Manders Mindset Podcast. Here you'll find both monologue and interviews of entrepreneurs, coaches, healers, and a variety of other people, where your host, Amanda Russo, will discuss her own mindset and perspective, and her guests' mindset and perspective on the world around us. Manders and her guests will help explain to you how shifting your mindset will shift your life.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Welcome to Mandarin's Mindset, where we explore the power of shifting your mindset to shift your life. I'm your host, Amanda Louis.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

And I'm here today with Catherine Diemy. She is a three-time award-winning best-selling author, a speaker, and one of the original founders of the independent concierge industry. She's an author of a dozen, more than a dozen books, including her latest The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness, Unlocking Your Power. And we are going to delve down forgiveness and a method that she has in regards to that. Thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Absolutely. So who would you say Katherine is at the core?

SPEAKER_03 1:18

At the core, I'm a teacher. Plain and simple. And I like to turn people's lights on. About as short as I can say it. If something I say can lead to somebody's healing or to spark them, then that's that that's that's my mana. That's why I wake up in the morning. Have you always been a teacher? Yeah, actually, since I was young. I've been doing this a very long time. And it's just being there for people and paying attention. And I'm very intuitive. I hid my intuition for 40 years. So and I'd flip the language for people. But now with this for the forgiveness method that I've discovered, now I really get to turn people's lights on because our world is broken. And forgiving the people that hurt you, that's gonna go a long way to help people to heal, including those unforgivable, ugly ones.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I agree. Now you you mentioned hiding your intuition for 40

Childhood Trauma And The Turning Point

SPEAKER_02 2:23

years. I love that we could backtrack a dad. Can you take us down memory lane a little bit? Tell us about your family dynamic, childhood. However, deep you want to take that.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

I grew up when dinosaurs roamed the earth uh in the 1970s, and I was raised by an alcoholic family. And connect all the dots you want, they're all correct. It was a very dysfunctional family. Both my parents were alcoholics, and I was terribly bullied in school because I was different and I was intuitive. But back in the 1970s, and sadly, in some places today, it should we shouldn't be doing this anymore, but we are. If you exhibited just a smidgen of intuition, they would slap a she's crazy as a bed bug sticker across your forehead, give you medicine, and put you in the crazy bin. And I knew that, and I knew my family would, so I kept what I could do because I'm I'm actually very into it. I'm clear wet and clear audience, clear sentient, and empathic, and I just kept it to myself. I didn't tell anybody, I mean, I didn't tell anybody because I wanted to fit in, I wanted to be like everybody else, but I wasn't, and I started to get bullied, and my parents were drinking, and so in the eighth grade, I tried to commit suicide, and I had a friend, and she, while I was thinking of committing suicide, I kept hearing call vivs. So I did. She talked me out of it, and we're still friends to this day. In fact, she went on to be a vascular surgeon and has saved thousands of people's lives. I just happened to be the very first one. So life went on for a while, and eventually my parents divorced, and my mother, still raging alcoholic, eventually, a number of years later, fell down a flight of stairs, broke her hip. And even my mother couldn't get a gin and tonic in the hospital. So she dried out and she went to a rehab. And we spent the next few years tighter than sisters. I mean, tighter than tight. We practically finished each other's sentences, we forgave each other, we told each other's stories. She, I finally got to know the woman who gave birth to me, and we became best friends. And three years later, she contracted breast cancer, which I got in 2012, and she died. And I knew without a shadow of a doubt, that was my flash point. Every human, 10 out of 10 humans, have a flashpoint. Everybody does. And it's that one time of your life that that changes your trajectory. And some people have more than one. And I knew that if I didn't clean up my act, I was gonna die too. So it's the only New Year's resolution I ever kept. I quit drinking on that year, and I've been sober now for 35 years. And when you get sober, at least back in the 70s, they want you to make amends. Okay. I was very shy, and we didn't have technology. Remember, dinosaurs were literally roaming, and we didn't have it. We had a choice. We could call the person on the phone, which was awful, because they're probably gonna yell at you, right? Or you could go see them in person, which was horrific. So I didn't do either one because I didn't want to. So I forgave people in the quiet of my own home, and I accidentally stumbled into the first part of my forgiveness system. And as I felt better and I started forgiving more and more people, and I started teaching it in business, flipping the words, so nobody would know what I was doing, it kind of took off and people started to be attracted to it. I've been teaching this for about 20 years, and it wasn't until 2020 that some friends of mine we finally figured out the special sauce to forgiveness, and we put it in a book. Oh, and I came out of the intuitive closet when I married my husband and finally admitted what I could do. And then in 2020, a really close friend of mine who's very intuitive finally said, I know what you've been doing, I know what you are, and you got to stop hiding it. The rest is history.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

You mentioned you've stumbled upon the first step.

Why Forgiveness Feels So Hard

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Let me back up. The thing about forgiveness that makes it so hard for people is everybody tells you to forgive. Your minister, your parents, your teachers, everybody and their uncle tell you to forgive. Nobody teaches you how. And then one if you don't want to. You see, on a 10 scale, with 10 being unforgivable dumpster fire, and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive, 10 out of 10 people listening or watching this broadcast right now are thinking of their number 10 person. And that's completely fair because they hurt you desperately. My system is going to start you off with the easy ones. And the unforgivables, I'm the only one that's going to look at you and say, you don't have to forgive the unforgivable people in your life. Why? Because there's a lot of people, places, and things. I did say places and things that you can forgive before you even get to that person. We have a whole lot of other stuff we can do before we get to them. And there's some things about forgiveness that are just flat wrong. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. I probably don't. Right? You're still wrong, and I need you to stay over there. I got boundaries in place. Well, Catherine, they don't deserve my forgiveness. No, they don't. They don't. They absolutely don't deserve your forgiveness. You're not doing it for them. You're doing it for you. They're gonna stay the same horrible person they've always been. You're the one who's gonna change. Well, just because if I forgive them, that means I'm giving in. Okay. No, no, again. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass. It doesn't mean that I'm saying you were right and I was wrong. The formal definition of forgiveness for me personally is simply this. I want you out of my head. That's it. I wanted you out of my head. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop dreaming about you. I want the triggers to stop. I want you out of my head. It's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

That makes a lot of sense. So you start with the early with the easier ones. Earlier on, it's the easier ones.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Yeah, we can go through it with forgiveness. I want you to take it in baby steps, right? And we're gonna get to the unforgivables in a minute because they're a bear. Now I want everybody to sit down alone in a room. And here's the hard part. I want you to turn your cell phone off. I know some of you are visibly twitching at the thought of turning your phones off. Like, get that. But I kind of want you to do it. And if you can't

The List Rating System And Mantra

SPEAKER_03 9:59

turn your phone off, turn the volume off. Don't have it vibrate because if it dances on your desk, you're gonna look at it like squirrel. You're gonna want to look at it and say, who is that? I need you to be alone without any distractions for about 15-20 minutes. It's really all it is, right? And then I want you to get a pad of paper and a pen. Okay, yeah. You probably want to get your tablet. I get that too. I am being a little old-fashioned. There's a reason for it. Years ago at Harvard University, they did a study back when I was in school, and they took two sets of kids. The first set of kids, they said, write down your goals and keep going. The other set of kids, say your goals out loud to the room and keep going. Then they followed the kids through the years, and the kids that wrote their goals down were twice as successful as the kids who did not. So there's something magical that happens when it goes from your brain down your arm onto a pen and paper. Now, if you're fighting me and you really need to use your tablet, go ahead. It's fine. What I want you to do is I want you to write a list of people that you think you need to forgive. The top five are gonna be the ugly ones, the unforgivables. That's normal. Everybody puts their top five down first. You know, I'm gonna forgive Tom, and he did this, and he's my eh. Everybody does that. Write it down, but keep going. I want you to write everybody. I want you to go all the way to the sandbox when you're at grammar school. Think of those kids. I want you to think of the person who cut you off in aisle four of the grocery store yesterday. Write grocery store person down on your list. Somebody cuts you off on I 95 South. Write that person down. So even Papu, you don't necessarily know names up, but like even like the person who stole your sandwich from the lunchroom at the work the other day, and they're doing it all the time, and you're really tempted to put Tabasco in the next one to catch who it is. Okay, forgive that person. They were hungry. Maybe they don't have a they didn't have a couple dimes of scrape together. You can forgive these people. Write your list, don't judge the list. If you write a name that you don't recognize, it just kind of comes out of your hand. Don't judge the list. That's your intuition. That's your brain coming up with a name that you need to forgive, but you probably don't remember. Don't judge the list. Friend of mine wrote down a little red wagon on her list. She didn't have any idea why she wrote down a little red wagon, but there it was. She kept it on the list and she forgave it. Did she remember it? No, but she forgave it anyway because some part of her brain needed her to forgive a little red wagon. Then I want you to look at those names and I want you to rate them from one to ten. Ten being unforgivable and one being super easy. Now, I don't care if you have 20 number fives, I really don't care. And I don't even care if you skip a number, I really don't care. But what I care desperately about is when you start the practice, you start with the easy ones and you work your way up to the hard ones. That I care about a lot. So I want you alone in the room. Spouses, significant others, children. I think they all, you need to be alone. The dog can be in there if it's a good dog. And I want you to put your hand in your heart, and I want you to imagine in your mind's eye the person who pick out a number one person, somebody you rated the easiest of easiest. For me, it was somebody I went to high school with, and we were best friends, and we had a falling out, and I couldn't remember what the falling out was about, and I couldn't even remember what we were fighting about. So she was clearly a one, easy to toss. So I want you to imagine in your mind's eye that the person is standing in front of you, not the adult. In this case, I imagine the high school kid that I used to know, not the adult. I want you to see the original person in front of you, not who they are today. And then here's where you can get some closure because you don't have to reach out to people, you don't have to call them. So you can forgive dead people because where they are or not doesn't matter a lick. If they're alive and well in your head, you can forgive it. And you can get closure because now I want you to imagine this person in front of you. If you have danger to say something, have at it. Say anything you want, laugh, cry, scream, rage, burn sage, dance. I don't care. And if you can't imagine the person in front of you, put a chair in front of you and talk to the chair. Heads. So talk to a chair. Say whatever you want. Then I want you to put your hand in your heart just to remind you to say the words through your heart. This is just for the humans. And I want you to say, I completely forgive Amanda. I forgive the energy around Amanda. I completely forgive myself. I forgive the energy around myself. I completely forgive the energy around the entire thing. Notice I'm talking about energy. Now, check in with your body. Are you still angry? No, great. Cross the name off the list, go to the next one. It was it a number three, a level three person, and you check in, you go, you know, I'm still mad. A little bit mad. Okay, cross, take the three, cross it out, put it to wait 24 hours, do it again. Don't do it right then. Do it again in 24 hours. This happened to a friend of mine. She was sitting right in front of me at the time. It was a level like four or five person. And she made that first pass with that mantra that I just gave you, and I could see it. She got mad and she just didn't get mad. She got pissed. It shot up to a 10. She's like, What happened? Supposed to go the other way. And I said, Well, the brain is a beautiful thing, man. And there's a closet in the back of your mind that's been padlocked for decades. And there's a movie playing in that closet. And you turn it off if you knew it was there, but you didn't know it was there. And you just said the magic words. And your brain is like, ooh, Catherine's ready for all these memories. And it opened up the closet and it flooded you with memories. So you cross out the number four, you put a 10, wait 24 hours, put them to the end of the list, and keep on going. But you'll notice I'm having you forgive energy. That's the magic, that's the magic sauce. Science has proven that everything on our planet has an energy field around them, including this little silver microphone that I am speaking into. The reason people don't stay forgiven, because I get people saying, I did the work. I did forgive them. Yeah, you did. But you didn't forgive the energy. And that's why it's still attached to you.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

How

Forgiving Energy So It Stays Gone

SPEAKER_02 16:42

did you come to realize that it was the energy and not just the post set?

SPEAKER_03 16:49

That answer will stretch people's brains a little bit and might cause them to bleed. And I apologize. But the answer was intuitively given to my two friends and I as a group. It just kind of appeared in our heads. I really, I'm not making that up. That's really what happened. And one of them is a PhD. And once we got that, once we got that idea, then we were off and running, finding studies and figuring it out and trying out the method, and it works. I mean, this stuff works. And because starting with the easy ones and working your way up, you're chipping away at it.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

No, I'm just curious. Did you try this method before without using the term energy and even just saying them?

SPEAKER_03 17:35

I did for years. I used to forgive people all by myself. I forgave all sorts of people. I didn't forgive the energy. And the thing about it, and I come from a pretty interesting family, they wouldn't stay forgiven. They had a nasty habit of when I went to a family function. My family's mostly passed away at this point because that's how old I am. But back in those days, you'd go to a family function and you'd see, you'd get a Christmas card, or you'd see their name, or they'd call you up, and man, boom, you'd be off and running again and have to peel you off the ceiling. And I used to say, I thought I forgave them. I knew I forgave them. Boom, you're right back. It's because I didn't forgive the energy. And you can't get a number 10 unforgivable person down to a one overnight. It's not going to happen. This is a marathon. It's not a sprint. A lot of people call this the dark night of the soul or shadow work. Okay, shadow work, I like that. But dark night of the soul, no, that's completely misnames because it's never one night. But this is called shadow work because you're working with the shadows of your past. So, Catherine, I don't want to go back to my past. I've moved beyond it. I know you don't. I didn't either. But here's what's going to happen. And here's why I think you should. First of all, I'm only asking you to go back a couple more times and then it's going to be gone. I'm from New York City originally. And there is another little saying that people love to say, forgive and you will forget. No. Hard past. I'm from New York. We all forget anything. So, yeah, not gonna happen. And I speak for everybody who's in New York. They'll all get, yep. But what I can promise you is I can look into my past and I don't remember the bad stuff as much anymore. I actually see the love that was back there. I see the laughter. I see the adults that were trying to help that kid. That's what I see now. I could probably regurgitate the stories if you wanted me to, if I really thought about it, but honest to God, I just don't remember them as much. I actually have different memories now. And if you had kind of background, there was no good stuff. There was. There was probably a teacher that you've forgotten. There might have been a relative, there might have been your best friend. There's always something in your past as a child that had a little light in it. There's always something. And then you never have to talk about it again. The unforgivable is different.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

In terms of talking about it again?

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Forgiving the unforgivable kind of that requires some mental gymnastics, Simone le Simone Biles level gymnastics. Let me tell you about one. I had two number tens, I had a bunch, but two main ones. Let's talk about the bullying school. Right? And I was in my 50s at the time. And

When You Cannot Forgive The Person

SPEAKER_03 20:31

it's crazy for a 50-something year old woman to be sitting in her house upset about something that happened in the 1970s. I should be over this. I'm an adult. It shouldn't be chipping me up. Yet it was. So I wasn't ready to forgive the bully. So I couldn't. And I couldn't even forgive the energy around the bully. I didn't want to. So I picked apart the memory. Everything on our planet has energy, right? So I picked apart the memory. I forgave my grammar school, the building, and the energy around the building. I forgave the desk and the chair that I sat at and the energy around the desk and the chair. I forgave the playground, the kids who stood around and didn't help, and the energy around all of these people. I forgave New York City and the energy around New York City. I forgave 1974. I completely forgave 1974 and the energy around 1974. I said that. I forgave breast cancer. I have forgiven chemotherapy. I forgave the bottle of pills that I was going to take when I wanted to commit suicide. These are all forgivable things. But let me be clear, I still haven't forgiven the bully. But I've taken a lot of the energy out of that memory. So then I went back and I thought, I checked in with my body and I thought, am I ready to forgive the bully? No. But I got it down to a 9.5, and I was finally ready to forgive the energy around the bully and make a few passes. Did I mean those first passes? No, I practically spit them out. I am from New York. I live in the South now, but I practically spit them, but I said it. I kept doing it. And eventually I'm over the course of weeks and months, I was able to get that down to a forgivable two or three. And I was able to finally toss it. But it took a while. It took a while. Now, let me be clear. There are some things in this world that are totally unforgivable that are so ugly we don't even want to talk about them in a podcast. You don't have to forgive them because there's other things in the memory you can forgive. You can forgive the bed, the table, the park. You can forgive yourself for going into the car. You can forgive the car. You could forgive the alcohol. You can forgive all these things. You don't have to forgive the unforgivable person. Forgive what you can and keep going. If you never can circle back and forgive that person, I'm cool with that. Forgive what you can and keep going. It's going to open up your life. Completely open it up. And you won't have it living in your head anymore. You'll be free.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

I like that example of forgiving what you can. Even like you started mentioning the car, the alcohol. It doesn't have to even be the energy of this individual. Because there are some things that are unforgivable.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

I don't want to forgive the energy. I don't even they don't deserve my forgiveness. I don't want any part of them. But forgive yourself. Forgive the memory, forgive the stuff, forgive the city, the town, the date of the calendar. There's so many. Forgive the clothes you were wearing. There's so many other things you can forgive that's going to open you up. Now, why do you want to forgive? What's in it for me? Okay. I have two answers to that question. Because everybody likes. And I know the most people are listening to this broadcast, so I'm going to walk you through the visual. I am talking, I am holding a purple coffee cup to the side of my body. This coffee cup actually is filled with tea. This tea cup represents anger, bitterness, regret. Now look at my

What Forgiveness Does For Your Life

SPEAKER_03 24:21

body language. I'm in a session with Amanda, and she's like, Catherine, you've got to talk about your anger. Anger? I can manage it. And I am. Look, I'm holding it off to the side, and my my other hand is free. I can have a perfectly decent life. But here's the thing humans irritate other humans. And if I don't take some stuff out of the cup, I'm going to keep filling it up with anger and bitterness and regret. And it's all going to start to sit there. So now I'm take now it's taking two hands to hold up the cup to the side, starting to penetrate my conversations. It's starting to get into my sleep habits. I'm not sleeping anymore. And if I keep not forgiving, now I'm holding the cup right in front of my face. I can't even see Amanda anymore. My dream relationship just walked by me. I missed it because I'm so focused on my anger. It's all I talk about. It's all I can think about. I'm spinning the stories funny, but I'm still talking about it. I'm losing friends now. The perfect way to heal my disease, I missed it. My whole bunch of money because I could have gotten a raise or the dream job, I missed it because I'm focused on the anger. So by using my system and starting with the easy ones and working your way up to the hard ones, look at my body language. It's back off to the side. I'm using two hands again to hold up the cup, but look at my body language. I can see amended now. I can start living my life. And if you keep using the method, eventually you can put your anger down and now look at my hands. Now I'm living my authentic self. The person I was born to be, I can now be. Now, if you want to become more intuitive, 10 out of 10 human beings are intuitive. I'm serious. You either see it, feel it, know it, or you sense it. And if you're angry and bitter and your self-talk is bad, that acts like a shield. And baby, you're gonna have a real hard time hearing your intuition because your anger is blocking it. There was a study done in Japan. It's called the Japanese water study. If you Google Japanese water study, I promise it'll come right the first page. And this is what he did. He studied water. And I'll just say it quick in the interest of time. He took several containers of water. One container of water, all he did was talk to it. That's it. He spoke loving words. I love you. You're beautiful. You're stunning. I'm so grateful. That's all he did. He just talked to it. The other container of water, he talked hate to. Awful things. The most horrible things you can say to somebody, he sent to that water. He then froze the water and he put the water under a microscope. The water he said love to had these beautiful crystal formations that were just gorgeous. The water he spoke hate to had these black malformations that look diseased and sick. Why am I telling you this? The human body is over 95% water. So if your self-talk is bad, you're angry, you're holding on to childhood anger, or your ex who left you, and you're filled with this anger and rage and resentment, or you're mad at yourself for something, what do you think you're doing to the water cells within your own body? It's kind of a mic draw moment. I'm just saying. That's why people say anger is toxic, it will make you sick. But somebody like me, I'm gonna look at you and say, okay, how? Why? Don't just drop that on me. Tell me how. This is the how. That's why you want to forgive. Now I have to say it's a little PSA that I have to give. Do as I say, not as I did. I am an overachiever. I am also my own guinea pig. I did this exercise and I wrote down my list, and I must have had 60 names on it. I kid you not. And I did it before I went to sleep because I want everybody to do this after dinner before they go to sleep because it's gonna make you tired. And I thought, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna be like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm gonna be like a butterfly coming out of the cocoon.

How To Practice Without Overdoing It

SPEAKER_03 28:38

I'm gonna do all this work tonight. I'm gonna wake up tomorrow morning. I'm gonna be a new person. Sure. Didn't work out that way exactly. I did forgive many people on the list, 100%. And I spent the next three days in bed with what everybody thought was a stomach flu. It was not the stomach flu. I forgave too many people, and my body had to play catch up. Those water cells, those dark water cells, well, they have to go somewhere, people. And your body heals itself when it's sleeping, which is why I want you to do this before bed. I never want you to do more than five or ten a night. And if you're doing a high-level person like somebody who's you rated over a seven, one a night. Because if you're like me, you might end up in the bathroom for a little bit. You didn't have a piece of bad fish. It's just your body is clearing out those toxins energetically and physically. Most people just get really tired. My older son, I've got two sons, and my older son did this in the morning and he still had to go to work. Didn't it work well for him? He was downing Red Bulls because he was tired. So yeah, you have to do this after dinner when you're going to be home for the evening.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

And now you mentioned if it's a really high intense person you need to forgive, only one. Only one. Think of the toxin.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Let's take my father, for example. He was a 10. And it took me a long time to forgive that man. He's been dead for decades. So that you can forgive dead people, because I did. And it took me so long to forgive him. But every time I wanted to forgive him, everybody else on my list just went out of my head. And when it's a number 10, you're not going to help, but look at the name, and stories are going to come into your head. You might get a little upset. I mean, this is the unforgivable, this is not easy. So I want you to take it in baby steps. That's why you pick apart the memory. And eventually I was able to get my dad down to a forgivable level. And then somebody asked me a question. This is the first book in a series of two or three books. We're not sure how many more are coming after. The next book is going to focus on how to forgive yourself. Hello. And I got dad down, and somebody asked me the magic question. If you had one thing to do over in your life that you regret, what would that be? And I said, I would let my father walk me down the aisle. I've

The Second List For Self Forgiveness

SPEAKER_03 31:13

been married for 33 years, and I was angry at the time. And I'm not going to tell the story, but let's just suffice it to say, I was legitimately angry and nobody would have blamed me. I mean, it was awful. But it was mean, and it's not who I am. And I regretted it all my life. And he's past now. There's nothing I could do. But when I had that realization, I thought he was ugly to me. But in the heat of the moment, I was probably ugly right back to him. So once I got dad down from a 10 to a one and I forgave him, then the other memories started. And I thought, now I have to go back up the other way up the scale. So I got a second list and I wrote down all the people that I wanted to forgive me. And I rated them. I rated these experiences and you wanted to forgive you. Like my father was right at the top of the list. I want my dad to forgive me. And there were other things that I did, and other people that I hurt. We're humans. That's why they bought a race. We all went.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Was it you not having him walking down the aisle? Is that what made you think who you want to forgive you?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

I'm just curious. Okay. It was that's what clicked. It's when I had that memory, it just occurred to me that I must have said things that hurt him. And not having him walk. I mean, yes, he probably expected it because why wouldn't he? But it hurt. And I knew it did, and I probably didn't care. It was a long time ago, by the way. So I wrote a list of all the people I thought I need to forgive me. And I flipped the language in the mantra. Instead of saying I completely forgive Amanda, I flipped it to say, Amanda completely forgives me. And remember, you're not reaching out to these people. You're not condoning what they did or what you did. You're the prisoner. You're the one that you need to be freed. And I was eventually able to get through many, many people on that list. But I don't want you to do the second list until you do the first one. Do that first one. Start with that easy. Start with the guy who delivered the groceries and the eggs were all broken. Come on now. Uber delivers or whatever that service is, all the eggs were broken from Walmart. Forgive the delivery kid. He had 20 deliveries that night. You can forgive them. Start with the easy ones and work your way up and forgive what you can and keep going. If you never get to your number 10 because you just can't, because it's something horrible. I mean, it was a murder, a rape, or something like that. That's fine. You've got people, places, and things from one to nine to forgive. You can't forgive the ten. That's fine. Forgive yourself for whatever that was and keep going. People can do this.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

Now it is there a step after when they switch it?

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Well, you're never gonna be done. People ask me, am I done? Uh humans irritate other humans. There's always people to forgive. You can forgive anything. Your Super Bowl team lost this past January. Enough time has passed, people, you can forgive them. You can forgive politicians not going there. You can forgive the war in the Middle East. What's it gonna do for the war in the Middle East? Absolutely nothing, but it's gonna do wonders for you. Everything is forgivable. You tripped over that, you oh, here's a good one. Maybe you're a parent. You stepped in a lego. If you've got kids, you step on it, it's like stepping on a jack for the baby boomers, but stepping on a lego, your foot bleeds, forgive the Lego. I had a client who was in a bad situation, she was in a bad job, and she would be crying in the shower every single solitary day right before she went to work. So I had her start easy. I said, forgive the shower. And quite frankly, that's all that she she was capable of at the time. So for a few days in a row, she forgave the shower and the water. Forgive what you can and keep going.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

I'm curious if you do you think this is something that people should do, like you say after dinner before you go to bed. Do you think this is like a daily thing they should be working on? Should there be like breaks in between? Like maybe they do it this night, then they don't do it the next night. I know every person is different, but like generally speaking.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Some people like me are gonna want to knock out their easy ones all in one sitting. I know you're out there. There's a lot of people overachievers like me out there. I did this and still do this practice every night. And if I don't really have anybody big to forgive that night, I will sit and think about the top three things I'm grateful for that day. It could be that coffee is it exists and coffee is a thing. Maybe that's all I can be grateful for. That's what I that's what I sit and that's what I do. And then I think of the things in my past and I pull out things that happened during the day. So I will do this practice absolutely every night, almost every night. Now we've got people who do it once a week on a specific day. We have people who do it when the spirit moves them, when they remember to do it. Some people are really good for the first couple weeks and then they peter out, they start to feel better, and they just keep on going. What's all good? It's all correct. But I would suggest to try and do five to ten a night and work on the people you are labeling between a one and a five. Start with that group. And then you could work your way up into the higher numbers. Your own name might be on the list. If your own name is on the list, there's probably something pretty ugly that you need to forgive yourself for. Put that down. It could be a person, it could be a place, it could be a thing, or it could be a purchase that you shouldn't have done. It could be anything. When I did this, I really did want to forgive a girl I went to school with, and we were in high school together. Couldn't remember what happened. We were very tight at the time. And I hadn't talked to her in decades. And I genuinely mean that. So I sat in the middle of my bed. This was like 10 years ago. I sat in the middle of my bed and I did the process. Imagine that high school girl was standing in front of me, and I had nothing to say to her because I didn't, I wasn't angry. I was in my 50s. So I just sent the mancha, and my sons, who were all grown and out, they were gone. And so I just went about my day. Two hours later, this is a true story. Two hours later, she calls me up on the phone. I am a concierge trainer, customer service trainer by trade. I'm retired now, but that's what I used to do. And my concierge training kicked in virtually immediately, and I amassed my my surprise because my jaw dropped to the floor. And we said all the right things, we made all the right noises, we reminisced, we did what people do, but I couldn't stand it. And I said,

Neutrality Boundaries And People Falling Away

SPEAKER_03 38:39

I'm a curious little bear. I have to know. After all these decades, why did you choose to call me today? She said, you know, it was a damned just thing. A figurine. You picked me in school two hours ago, which was exactly when I was saying the mantra, fell off the shelf, and I saw it land on the ground, and I thought maybe I should give you a call. She was 700 miles away. So if forgiveness energy, and it's just like the law of gravity, the law of gravity is going to work whether you believe in it or not, it doesn't care. So you can also call it anything you like. You could call it the law of keeping Amanda on the planet. It doesn't care. The law of forgiveness is the same. You make one pass, you say that mantra, oh, it's working. But it's like an onion. You probably only forgave that first layer. And if the law of forgiveness has the power to move an object to the ground 700 miles away, imagine what it's going to do to your body. Imagine how much better you're going to feel. Now, people will leave your life. Sorry, I have to play devil's advocate. Like energy attracts like energy too. That's physics. So as you get lighter, as you forgive people, as you your the energy around you gets lighter, you're going to attract new people into your life. Great. But you're going to piss off the people you live with who are currently in your life, probably. You're going to have some jackrabbits. Boy, those hurt. They're good friends with you now. And you start doing this process, and boom, they're gone. You never hear from them again. I had a bunch. I had to pop them on my list and forgive them. I did. And then you're going to have the saboteurs, and they're the ones that probably knew you're from your work, kid. They like the broken you, and they don't want you to change. So they're going to try and sabotage it. A lot of them are narcissists. And Jim Rohn has a very, very famous quote. He said, You're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. So you get to choose who you spend your time with. This is the new you. This is you 2.0. You get to choose.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

And now you mentioned these saboteurs. Are they usually people who actively discuss that they don't think you should be doing this?

SPEAKER_03 41:02

In my particular case, they just left. We were really, really tight friends. I got breast cancer, and not everybody can handle that kind of a illness. It was stage three breast cancer. And I started to forgive things. I forgave breast cancer. I forgave the chemo. I forgave the chemo drip. I forgave the chemo chair. I forgave the radiation. I forgave the 10 operations. I had a list. And I forgave all these things because it was toxic. And they left. No discussion. They just left. I've never heard from them again to this day. Don't be surprised. It could be family, it could be friends, it could be people you work with, but you're just, they're just gonna, they're not, they're literally not gonna see you anymore. It's almost like they they don't see you. And it's because, and it's to use a term, it's because you're vibrating different. And it's like you're standing in one room, they're standing in another room, and all of a sudden, sudden the door shuts between the rooms. They literally, you're literally in a different place, they can't see you.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

It makes a lot of sense, but it's so fascinating to me that a lot of them didn't say anything and they were just gone. I'm curious, when did you start doing this practice personally in your own life?

SPEAKER_03 42:19

I've been doing this practice on and off for about 30 years in one form and another, and we didn't get the actual step-by-step process really on paper and in a formal way until 2021. But I've been doing this forgiveness work just personally for over 30 years, and it has it completely changed my life. I turned it from an angry person who lived and breathed her story. And losing your story is scary because if you lose your story, who are you? I'm a survivor of alcoholic parents and alcoholism, I'm a survivor of suicide, I'm a survivor of this, that, and the next thing. If I lose that story, who am I? Very scary. But the thing about it is if once you lose the story, that's when you get to be you. That's when your authentic self comes in. And you can finally see your dream job and your dream relationship. And whether you're a teacher or whatever you're going to be, you'll finally see what your purpose is for being on the planet. Or you'll just be it peaceful because maybe you love your life. That's great too. But you'll be able to be, you'll be able to live your life from authenticity as opposed to anger. That's a long time. It is a long time. And it's also a long time to hold grudges. I'm more than a little stubborn. And when you're hurt, you just kind of whirl it around and then you stuff it in the back of your head, you move on with your life, and then something triggers you. You go into a bakery and you smell something, or you see the color purple, or whatever it is, and boom, you're right back again. This stuff is let me tell you another story. I'm just making it up. But let's say you had a perfect warning, the coffee was hot, everything worked, got into your car, and you're driving to work. You get to the stoplight. You usually turn left to go to work. But today your gut is telling you to go right. So you listen to your gut. It's that little bird on your shoulder, and you turn right. It takes you by your old gray, your old high school. You don't have to give it a second thought because you have a presentation to give at work that day. And you, it's a very important presentation. But by the time you get to work, you're grumpy. And you don't know why. You had a perfect morning. It wasn't even raining. It was a sunny day, 75 degrees. It was a perfect morning, but you're grumpy and you can't stop it. And you start cutting people's heads off. And people are looking at you saying, What's wrong with you? Did you have a bad warning? Did something happen? No, everything's fine. You bombed the presentation because your head just wasn't in it. What's going on? Your brain, in its infinite wisdom, saw the high school, and it was a trigger. And it triggered some memories that you forgot. And it was there in the back of your mind. And that movie in your head started to play. And what this system is going to do for you is next time you work the system, you forgive, you can forgive the high school building, because I did. Forgive all of the things within that memory. So the next time you turn right at that stoplight instead of left, and you drive by the high school, you won't care. That's how you know you've forgiven somebody. You won't care. I'm a serial entrepreneur, so I've had a lot of business partners. And one of them in particular, I was really mad at. Legitimate, at least, in my opinion. Every time I saw her name, boom, I mean, I would just go off and I'd be angry. And then one day I put her into my forgiveness mix, and it took me a while. She wasn't a 10, but it took me a minute, took me a good couple weeks to get that woman down and completely forgive her. I finally did. One day, I think it was her birthday, and I was on Facebook or social media, I don't know what I was doing, and I saw her name, and I didn't care. And I caught myself and I thought, wait a minute, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care good. I don't care bad. I don't care. That's freedom. That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for neutrality. I'm looking for I don't care. That's freedom. Now you're free.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Now I want to transition it, Tad. When will you diagnose with breast cancer?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

2012. The day before my birthday, and this is for the ladies, and men can get breast cancer too, not to scare people, but they can. But the day I always did a self-exam every day before my birthday. And usually more than once a year, but I did it this particular time and I found a lump. And in 2011,

Intuition In Action Including Cancer Story

SPEAKER_03 47:16

I all of a sudden heard you need to jog. You need to start running. Okay, I've been violently allergic to exercise my entire life. And if you look in the dictionary under doesn't like to exercise, my name would have been right there. And I just kind of looked up at the ceiling and go, You're crazy. I couldn't get out of my head. You need to run, you need to jog, you need to jog. So really, just to shut the voice up, I took up the couch to 5K running program, which is online and it's brilliant, and it does exactly what you what it says it does. I eventually ran a 5K. And I went from a size 14 down to an eight. I knew the weight was coming off too quick, but I just ignored it and I attributed to running for the first time in my life. And when I got down to the eight, I found a lump in that self-exam the day before my birthday. And it was stage three breast cancer, triple positive. And the surgeon said, if I hadn't taken up running exactly when I did, I would be dead because my breasts were so dense, mammograms didn't work on me. And it was in a very strange spot, and the fat would have mem would have masked it, and you and I wouldn't be talking. So when that little bird in your shoulder chirps something like that, listen to it. Don't ignore it when it chirps at you. That little bird on my shoulder saved my life three times. You know, I'm pretty good at listening to my intuition now.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah. Now, speaking of your intuition, I'd love if we could backtrack. You mentioned that you hit it and you didn't tap into it for a long, long time until you got married.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

Oh, I didn't say I didn't tap into it. I just hit it. I forgot it's hard work. I would give people, I was in the concierge industry, I taught people how to be a concierge in customer service and how to start a concierge business. And I did that for like 25, 30 years. And I would get messages for people and I would deliver them, but I would flip the language. I would look at you and say, you know, Amanda, we work for you. Have you ever thought dot dot dot? Or you know, I have a brilliant idea. Here's a crazy thought, dot, dot, dot. That kind of thing. And I would deliver the message. And when I got too close to something, which I did all the time, they'd look at me and say, How could you possibly know that? And I'd mask it by saying, Oh, it's just years of experience. I've been doing this a long time. It's just a hunch. Wasn't a hunch. I heard it. Now I'm out of the closet and telling people. But it's not easy going from corporate life to what everybody calls a woo-woo kind of thing because people think you're crazy. They're gonna fit me or for a straitjacket. I want mine in purple, please. Everybody's intuitive, it's not just me. I was just born with the volume really loud. 10 out of 10 people are intuitive. Seriously. It's everybody is. Everybody just does it a little bit differently. So you would say to people, here's a crazy thought, or something like that. Yep. I still do that to this day, depending upon who I'm talking to. And you'll never hear me say psychic because that's just a personal reason. I just don't like the word. I think I kind of think it's no disrespect to anybody who calls themselves a psychic. I'm not trying to bash anybody. I just personally don't like the word because I think of car salesmen. So I'll call myself intuitive. But you know, everybody's intuitive. And I am what they call clear audience, which just means I hear words. I'm also clairvoyant, which means I see things. Now, can you see your childhood bedroom in your mind right now? Yeah. Can you see the color of the wall? Yeah. Okay, you're clairvoyant. Not trying to scare you. It's not a Stephen King kind of thing. Your ghost isn't gonna walk in and say hello to you, although they might, but I doubt it. What it means is that's how your intuition works. You see the answer, you see it in the written word, you see a video, you're talking to somebody, you see the answer. I was born clear audience, so I hear it. I hear it in music, I hear the music lines, I hear it in nature, I hear words in my head. That's where that's how I am. Some people feel it, like they'll walk into a room and it just feels off. Okay. If it feels that off, may I suggest eat? But yeah, some people are empathic and it just they feel the energy. I know somebody who's so empathic. If somebody's got a stomachache, she walks away with a stomachache. And then they're the clear knowing people. They're really hard to tell, they're intuitive. I argue with people all the time because one minute they don't know it, and the next minute they do. And they think they're the ones who came up with the idea, and nine out of 10 times it was divinely guided, but they don't believe you because they just, it's just in their head, they just know it. And they're called clear cognizant, I believe. Everybody does one of those four methods. There's actually 12 to 15 methods out there, but I usually only talk about the the first four or five. And and I'd have a book about it, because of course I do. The little bird in your shoulder. That's a cute little very short 90-page book.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Is there a way that people can tell what which of them they are?

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Everybody knows. You identified with one of the ways I just talked about. If you start listening, and I'm not the only one that has had their lives saved, there are millions and millions of examples of people whose lives are saved. Animals don't let their brains get in the way. Years ago, there was a horrible tsunami that hit, I want to say Thailand. Pretty sure it was Thailand. It was a very long time ago. And this is a true story. The elephants started to act really strange, and they started to try and move the handlers up into high ground. And the handlers were not having any of them, trying to beat the elephants, saying, No, no, no, go back into your pen. The elephants weren't listening. And they moved the entire handlers up to high ground and saved everybody's life. Animals have this animal intuition, and if they feel something like that, boom, they're gonna act on it. Humans are stupid because we'll talk ourselves out of it. What do you mean you want me to go right instead of left at the stoplight? I got a presentation today. Well, maybe by going right, you're gonna avoid a car accident or something. You'll never know why you had to turn right until you can't. I was walking my dog, my late dog Maggie, she died a couple years ago. But this was about five years ago or so. And I walked her thousands of times and we got to the intersection. I looked both ways, and all of a sudden I hear the words, she's not gonna stop loud, like something standing next to me. And me being me, I pulled Maggie right to my side and I stopped in a dime, and some young lady ran the red and would have killed us both if I hadn't stopped when I did. I'm not the only one this happens to. There was a story done in Miami, and it was a couple years ago, and half the building just went down, and a lot of people died. One woman the night before had this strange urge to put her medicine in her handbag. She'd never done that before. And when she woke up that morning, right before the building collapsed, she heard very clearly, run for your life. And instead of running the way she always ran, she ran the opposite direction, went to the stairwell, made it downstairs, and was one of the few people that survived that disaster. What are these people hearing? Are they hearing angels? They're higher selves. What are they hearing? It doesn't matter. They're hearing that little bird in their shoulder. And every 10 out of 10 people can hear the little bird in your shoulder. It's just a matter of learning what your listening style is. You see it, hear it, feel it, or know it. Or smell it. A lot of people smell it. That's a weird one.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Now you said that people will know which of these it is for them.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

You'll be pulled to one of them. If you're a clear audience and you hear things in your head, it's like me. It sounds just like my own voice in my own mind, but I know it's not me answering me. I know it's not because I've been hearing it since I was a kid. And I used to have conversations with myself in my head. And imagine my surprise when I found out I was the only one who was doing that. Which is when I learned to shut up. Because I quickly figured out that if you hear voices in your head, they're going to give you medicine and put you in a straitjacket. So I clammed up and I didn't tell anybody for 40 years because I didn't want to be put in a straitjacket. But I knew that I just thought it was my friend or me talking to me. I didn't know what it was. I was a kid. But if you're and if you're empathic, you already know you're empathic because you can feel the energy. I mean, you'll shake somebody's hand and it feels off. Don't ignore it. Humans are good at ignoring things. Now, can people be multiple of these? I am empathic. I can see it, I can hear it, I can feel it, and sometimes I know it. I was born with the gift of hearing, and over the years I've developed the other senses. So now it's very strange, but I do kind of all four of them. I do all of them all at once, especially when I'm talking about somebody's past life. Yeah, we're going down a rabbit hole now. Serious rabbit hole. I'm happy to talk about it, but this is a rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

I was just curious. It's just so fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

And sometimes when I'm talking about somebody's past life, I mean, we're down the rabbit hole, might as well go all the way, right? The angels will show me the past life that's chipping you up the most, and then we'll discuss whatever that lifetime is, and then I'll lead you through a forgiveness

Past Life Clearing And Deep Rooted Fear

SPEAKER_03 57:05

exercise so you can clear it. Let me give you an example. A client of mine was a federal law enforcement officer in Washington, D.C. And he called me up because he wasn't dating and he wasn't sleeping. He tried everything. He tried hypnosis, he tried food, he went to the doctor. Nothing was working. And he said, I'll do anything you tell me. So all of a sudden, I got this vision of a guy sleeping with his wife, and he was the sheriff of the town, and he was beloved in the town. And I watched as his wife smothered him with a pillow and killed him in his sleep. Once, and then once I revealed this life to him, we forgave everybody. He forgave the wife, he forgave himself, he forgave the pillow, the bed, you know, the whole thing. Then we forgave the life. And he I followed up with him a bunch of weeks later, and he was sleeping through the night and dating again. Because if my wife had killed me with the pillow, I wouldn't really want to date myself. I mean, would you? If you've got a fear of heights, you were probably pushed off a cliff, or that's probably how you died. If you have a fear of knives, you have a fear, an unnatural fear of something, it might be rooted in a past life. Because we carry this energy from life to life. When you get angry and something traumatic happens to you, you think it leaves your mouth because you're screaming or whatever you're doing, and it dissipates in the universe. Okay, most people don't even think about it. It doesn't. It hangs around your energy field. And I'm not crazy, it travels with you from life to life until you clear it. So when people are ready to lose their stuff, usually they find me. That's usually how it plays out. So if you're ready to lose your stuff, go to my website and give me a cough.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

You mentioned you are writing a book on how to forgive yourself.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

I am with one of my besties. She's my co-author, and we're writing a book that's going to talk about how to forgive yourself. And I've already walked you through that. We're going to dive even deeper into the unforgivable, and there's a chapter in there on how to forgive money. Hello. A lot of people have an awful relationship with money. It slips through their fingers. Is this rooted in a past life? Maybe. But it could be also that maybe you want to start with forgiving money and the energy around it. Couldn't hurt.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

I like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:31

Can I give you the lottery numbers? No, it does not work that way. And every intuitive I've ever talked to in my life, we've all tried. Trust me. We've all tried. Every single one of us. I haven't met one intuitive who hasn't at one point tried to get the lottery numbers. I wish we could, but it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

October 20th, I'm putting out a forgiveness class based on the first book. And it's going to come right to your inbox. So you'll get emails from me every couple days for 30 days. And it's going to go through the entire system and help you go through it piece by piece. And that should be available October 20th.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

And now this isn't a live class. No, it's via email. So

New Class Details And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

in each email, you're going to get a video from me talking about whatever I'm talking about. You're also because there's everybody has a different learning style. So I will give you the audiobook, one or two chapters of the in the audiobook. I'll also give you a chapter that you can read in a PDF. So some people like to hear the information, some people like to see it, and some people want to read it, you know, so you'll be able to use whatever learning style you like. And you'll get emails every couple days. I think it's better to let the class come to you than you have to go to a platform and take the class. I just think if it comes into your email, for me personally, I just think it's easier. And now, do I suggest you save all the emails and do it all in one weekend? You could if you wanted to. I wouldn't suggest it, but you could. But I probably wouldn't do more than two lessons in a row, just because the information, it's I'm I want you to slowly work your way into this. And we, you know, we're gonna work our way up to the unforgivable. By the end of the 30 days, will you be able to forgive your unforgivable? Not completely, but I'm pretty sure you'll be able to start taking stabs at it, making a few passes. As I said, not everybody can forgive their unforgivable person, and maybe you should. And that's fine. You forgive what you can and keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

And now I think it's possible, but I'm just playing devil's advocate. I feel like you probably had it people say to you that you should be able to forgive everybody because how can you move past it if you don't forgive them?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Oh, yeah, and especially if it's family, family messes you up big time, and you might have a sibling or a parent who says, I don't know why you're mad at them. That I mean, that was nothing. Why are you mad? You're crazy. Why? I mean, I was there, it was funny, you're crazy. Okay, we can unpack that. With all due respect to your sibling or a relative, whoever said that to you. I don't care about them. I really don't. I wish them well, but I care about you. If it was real to you, it's real to me, and it's in your head, it could be forgiven. Ignore what your family is telling you. Forgiveness is selfish, it's personal. You do it for you in the privacy of your own home. You don't have to tell a soul you're doing it. And if you've got a narcissistic family like that, you probably don't want to tell them you're doing it. I might keep it to myself. If that's the kind of family you have. I know a couple people that have that kind of a family, and I have suggested I would keep this, I would be quiet. Until you're further enough along and you've forgiven enough of them that you don't care anymore, then you can tell them. They're gonna notice anyways, because you're not gonna be as nasty. You're not gonna let, you know, when Aunt Martha starts spitting out at you at Thanksgiving dinner and she starts saying that and pushing your buttons, you're probably gonna laugh and you won't care. And your family's gonna notice that you're not caring and they're gonna want to know what you're doing because you're not drunk. That means you literally don't care. You can tell them or not. I have a client who whose mother was really nasty, and I she said she needs to read your book. I said, Okay. And she said, but she won't read your book. I said, Okay. She said, Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give her my copy and I'm gonna put it on her coffee table. She'll read it. She never read it. And I said, Well, did she ever read it? She said no, but every time I go over to her house, I see your book on the table, and it kind of gives me some some courage to walk into the house. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Wow, this makes a lot of sense, and it seems like it would really work. I'm gonna have to give this a shot.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

It's life-changing. This will change your life. And as I said, even if you only forgive the people you've raided between one and five, just that will completely free up your brain. Because these people are all living in your head, rent-free. Buddha had a wonderful quote, and he said, Anger is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. And that's what's going on. You're keeping them in your head. I really think it's time for you to evict these people. Forgiveness is selfish. You're not doing it for them. They don't deserve it. They don't even care. You and I are women. If we have an ex, we want them to be as miserable as us. But we're the ones sitting in the kitchen eating a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream and crying our eyes out. They don't care. You forgive for you. You never forgive for them. It's never for them, it's always for you. Wow, Kevin, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this. Oh, my pleasure. And for the women out there, you're worthy to live a life of love and joy. You're worthy to be your best self. Don't let anybody else tell you otherwise. You are worthy. The fact that you're here on the planet means you're worthy. You've got a spark of light and love inside of you, and the world needs to see it. So start forgiving so we can get people to see that spark. You're worthy. It's your birthright.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

That is so true. Have you heard of a man named Jay Shetty? I have. I like Jay Shetty. I've seen a lot of this stuff. I'm a big fan, and if you've seen a lot of this stuff, then you might know these. But he's got a podcast called On Purpose, and he ends there with two segments. And I've started incorporating those two segments into my podcast because I think they're very unique. So the first segment is the many sides to us. There's five questions, and they need to be answered in one word each. What is one word someone who was meeting you for the first time would use to describe you as?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Friendly and loving, probably.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

That's two words.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Okay, friendly. Let's just go with

Rapid Fire Questions And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

that. I almost said funny, but let's say friendly.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

What is one word someone that knows you extremely well would use to describe you as loving? What is one word you'd use to describe yourself? Stubborn? What is one word that if someone didn't like you or agree with your mindset would use to describe you as crazy? What is one word you're trying to embody right now? Joy. Second segment is the final five, and these can be answered in a sentence. What is the best advice you've heard or received?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

You are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. Changed my life when I read it. Why was that the best? Because I was running with people that were not healthy for me, and when I saw it, I it just hit my head hard, and I changed my life on a dime.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

What is the worst advice you've heard or received?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

Oh, don't worry, you're just gonna get married and have kids. You don't need to go to college. Yeah, you're a woman. It was the 1970s, people. You know, I was born before the turn of the century, so yeah. Makes me sound so old. I I get why that was the worst.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

I and I say well because a lot of times I'm like, so why was that the worst? I don't have to ask that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

It was also the best because all my life, if you tell me I can't do something, I didn't want to before, but now I'm gonna do it just despite you. Just because I know it's gonna make you squirm. Now I'm gonna do it. And that has worked for me for many, many years. Until I had my two sons and my older son figured out they had that bug in my head and he used it once to get out of trouble. Really bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:27

Smart kid.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:29

Oh my gosh. What is something that you used to value that you no longer value? Alcohol. Been sober a long time. If you could describe what you would want your legacy to be as if someone was reading it, what would you want it to say?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

She was one of the kindest people you would ever meet. I can't think of any epitaph better than that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be? And I want to know why.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

I think that's a hard one. I can think of I can think of a lot. But I really think that I would want people to treat everybody equally. I really do. Every race, creed, color, I think equality would be my big one. I want everybody to be treated the same. Why would that be the one law? It's just kind of been my thing for most of my life. I get very irritated when I get irritated by stuff like that. So that would probably be one of the first laws I would put in. Now, very hard for humans to do because because you're human, and humans aren't very good at that sort of thing, but I think that's what I would want. I didn't say I would know how to implement it. I'm just saying that's what you don't have to know how to implement that. That's not part of it. I completely get that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:03

Well, thank you so much, Kevin. I really enjoyed this. I did too. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, of course. And now, where's the best place for listeners to connect with you?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

You can go to my website, and my first name, thanks to my mother, is spelled a little odd. Thanks, mom. And it's k-a-t-h-r-in-e Giovanni.com. And my all my books are available on Amazon. But my website has podcasts and it has everything on it. Just go there and all roads lead to Rome.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

I will link that in the show notes. And are you active on any social media if anybody wants to connect there?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

I am on TikTok, Substack, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook. It's on my website. I'm active in like 10 of them. But Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok seem to be the big ones. And I recently joined Substack. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

And I do just like to give it back to the guest. Any final words of wisdom, anything else you want to share with the listeners? No pressure, but I like to give it back to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:12

Just to know that you got this. Forgiveness is tough. It really is tough. There's people you don't want to forgive, and I get that. And you don't know how. This system will teach you how to forgive. And as I said, and I know I've said it a bunch of times, I'm going to say it one last time. If there's somebody you can't forgive, that's fine. Walk around the wall and keep going. Circle back if you if you can. And if you can't circle back, that's fine. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

I love that. Just keep going. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Mandate Mind Plat.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

In case no one told you today, I'm proud of you. I'm voting for you. And you got this. As always, if you enjoyed the show, I would really appreciate it if you would leave me a five-star rating, leave a review, and share with anyone you think would benefit from that. And don't forget, you are only one nine-set shift away from shifting your life. Thanks guys, until next time.