The Swearing Therapist: Cancer, Courage and Choosing Yourself | 163

What if healing wasn’t about being perfect but about being radically honest, fiercely authentic, and relentlessly committed to growth?

In this unapologetic and empowering episode of Manders Mindset, licensed clinical social worker Zulma Williams also known as The Swearing Therapist, shares her incredible journey of reinvention. From moving to the U.S. alone at 31 with no job, no English, and no clear plan, to surviving breast cancer, going back to school in her 40s, and building a successful therapy practice in her 50s, Zulma proves that it's never too late to change your life.

With humor, grit, and no-filter wisdom, Zulma breaks down why therapy isn’t about advice but about discovering your own answers. She opens up about what cancer taught her about boundaries, how real healing happens between therapy sessions, and why authenticity in mental health spaces matters more than ever.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating fear, burnout, or self-doubt and ready to reclaim their power.

🎙️ In this episode, listeners will discover:

⚡ Why it’s never too late to start over
 🧠 The truth about therapy, healing, and personal responsibility
 🔥 How breast cancer redefined her priorities and voice
 💬 Why being “The Swearing Therapist” helps clients feel seen
 🛠️ How to use therapy tools like grounding and self-reflection
 🚗 The GPS metaphor for therapy and client-led healing
 🎯 What real progress looks like: shorter recovery time, not perfection

⏰ Timeline Summary:

[1:05] – Moving to the U.S. alone at 31 and starting from scratch
 [9:34] – Early culture shocks, language barriers, and lessons from adaptation
 [15:17] – Going back to school at 42 and overcoming fear
 [20:55] – Breast cancer, boundaries, and reclaiming autonomy
 [32:38] – Why bedside manner matters and how doctors impact healing
 [41:36] – The meaning behind “Dragonfly Therapy” and inner transformation
 [43:19] – Therapy as a partnership: the client drives, the therapist guides
 [52:04] – Understanding real healing: shortening emotional recovery time
 [57:55] – Self-advocacy, self-trust, and trusting one’s own body wisdom

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting the Stage: Mindset and Guest Intro
• 1:03 Warrior Origins and Early Family Dynamics
• 4:15 Leaving Argentina and Starting Over at 31
• 9:00 Culture Shocks, Language, and Early Jobs
• 13:40 Pivot at 42: Returning to School
• 17:10 Cancer Diagnosis and Rewriting Priorities
• 23:30 Advocating in Healthcare and Treatment Choices
• 29:20 What Therapy Is and Isn’t
• 34:30 Tools, Homework, and Real-World Change
• 38:40 Fit Matters: Finding the Right Therapist
• 42:00 Progress Over Perfection: Emotional Healing
• 46:20 Rapid-Fire Segments: Identity and Values
• 49:20 Closing Reflections, Takeaways, and CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Manders Mindset Podcast. Here you'll find both monologues and interviews of entrepreneurs, coaches, healers, and a variety of other people, where your host Amanda Russo will discuss her own mindset and perspective, and her guest mindset and perspective on the world around us. Manders and her guests will help explain to you how shifting your mindset will shift your life.

SPEAKER_01: 0:32

Welcome to Manders Mindset, where we explore the power of shifting your mindset to shift your life. I'm your host, Amanda Russo. And I am so excited for today's guest. I am here with Zolma Williams, and she is a licensed clinical social worker, and she's known as the swearing therapist. And you will understand why as we get chatting. I thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me, Amanda. So who would you say Zolma is at the core?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05

Zulma is a warrior. Zulma is someone who doesn't give up no matter what life presents, and keeps pushing through the challenges and wants to inspire others to do this.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21

Have you always embodied that? An embodied wanting to inspire others? No, not necessarily.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29

So I guess that my I these things that were inspiring to others, but I was like, oh that's what I did, right? Like moving from Argentina to America, for example. I was 31 when I moved, and if people were like, oh, that is so courageous. And I was like, oh, yes. To me, the real courageous people are the ones who remain in Argentina because they're suffering a lot more than me adapting to a new culture, right? So I guess that was inspiring, but it wasn't like, oh, I want to inspire you. It's like that's what the fuck I did, basically.

SPEAKER_01: 2:05

So can you take us down memory lane a little bit? Tell us about your childhood, family dynamic, upbringing, however deep you want to take that, but lay the foundation a little bit. Of course.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18

So I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and the baby of four. My older brother is 10 years older than me. Then I had another brother who I never met because he passed away when he was a baby. And then my sister, she's seven years older than me, although she says that she's younger than me. And then the baby, like suffering. Like I was not like what was I level here, right? My mom was a stay-at-home mom, and my dad was the one working and providing something that was very normal, if you would, at that time, in that society. And then my dad left when I was eight. Divorce was not legal in Argentina at that time, so they couldn't remarry, even if they met someone else. But my dad left and I was seeing him every other weekend, and it became a very enmeshed relationship with my mom because my siblings were already teenagers, right? My brother was 18, my sister was 15, and they were doing their own thing, and it just became my mom and I it was very cool. And mom's best friend, right? And then it translated in a lot of unresolved trauma growing up because I was like, oh, I felt responsible for her happiness, and it took me a lot of fucking therapy to realize that it wasn't my responsibility, but at the time, that's how I felt. Then I continued to grow, graduated high school, I went to the university there. Um optometrist, that's what I went to school for over there, and then I graduated and I couldn't find a job doing that, so I end up being a truth reader. And because I'm good with grammar and spelling, like if you miss a spelling words, could like have it a fucking red light flashing, right? Like it doesn't make spell, which isn't blessed at first, because like I cannot read a newspaper on a magazine, or it's like I'm like, These motherfuckers in the approach reader, you know, like so. And then I fast forward until I'm 31, and I had a cabin, so it was an age dream that I had to move to America. And because of the movies and like everything seemed like so perfect, and I was like, I fucking won't, right? Like so I always had in the back of my mind. And also I wanted to study psychology when I was there. But my mom had bad experiences with psychologists and therapists, so she said, if you can, but I'm not gonna support you. And at that time, going to school, I didn't have a job, so I was like, Okay, fucking optometry. And I had this dream that I wanted to move to America, and then a cousin of mine, which we were like, he probably was a year older than me, he had a stroke and died, like completely and speculative. Like he was in class, and it I was like, oh shit, like it is. I have time. When then I realized I don't have time, like nobody has tomorrow guaranteed. And I went to my therapist at the time and I said I'm going to America in December. This was about August, I will say July, August. And you were going to America three months later. Yes, ma'am. So at the time I was living with my mom because I didn't have a job. I didn't have a boyfriend or a husband, I didn't have children. So when you have nothing, you really have nothing to lose. So it was an adventure coming here. And my mom said, if it doesn't work out, you always have your place here. So I came, my dad was not happy that I was, what are you gonna do? And you know, like, but it was I'm 31 and I'm still living with my mom. And it's not because I didn't want to work, it's because the socioeconomic situation in the country, and 30 years later, it's the same shit. Like I was there in March, and it's like they are dealing with the same issues from 30 years ago. So, and that's what I move away from, right? Like it's like it has to be something that is more organized, that is not as corrupt. Because I always say I didn't become hardworking when I moved to America, but I already have my work ethic. But if I don't have a fucking job, how can I show you what my work ethic is, right? So when moved here in December of 1996, step out of the plane, and it's like I'm fucking stepping into winter wonderland, right? Like the stuck, like the fucking movies. You don't have all the Christmas things, like reality's an apparently, but at the time, that means they're putting up in the movies, you know, and I had an uncle and his family living in California, so that's where I went. And I was living with them for a couple of weeks until I found my uncle found a place where I could move in and be a roommate to another family. And it was funny because I'm walking, right? I'm venturing out, walking, exploring the neighborhood. I couldn't cross the street. Because the fucking light was never because I didn't know you had to push a button. So I but because I jaywalked basically, like I almost caused an accident because I'm like, oh home, like you know, so I fucking dart across the street, and then we're having dinner, and I say it, and then my cousins, because they are about my age, they were like, Oh, you need to push the button again. How the fuck am I supposed to know? So they had been here for about 10 years and no in across nobody's mind to tell me, right? Then you push the button to cross the street. So that situation, so I started working with my uncle at uh a Mexican bakery.

SPEAKER_01: 9:18

Yeah. When you came to America, did you come by yourself completely by yourself? Yes. Okay, and but you knew some people in America, but you said that my uncle. Your uncle. My uncle and his family.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

Okay, right. But then that quickly turned into a nightmare because now this is 1996. There is no email, there is no, like I wrote letters, it takes a month to get there, a month to get back. And I was buying a calling card from him, from his business, but I was paying, I was grabbing the five-dollar calling card and I was paying for it. But he started trying to control who I was calling, who I was talking to, why do I need a stamp, like who I'm writing letters to, and I'm like, okay, I'm fucking 31 years old. And I because he tried to control his children and he couldn't. So here I come brand new from to the culture here, because they've been here, I don't remember, but it's like 10 years or 15 or something like that. But your parents and your siblings, and it's like they it was a good intention, it was don't be with one foot here and one foot there, but it the manner that it was imposed on me, I'm like, this is not gonna work out. So I met, so my dad was born in Syria and he went to Argentina when he was 18. So I didn't know any of my family from my dad's side because they were all in Syria. This, my cousin, one of my cousins, called my dad and said, Uncle, I'm in America. And my dad said, Oh, my daughter is too. Where are you? In California. So I met my cousin on my dad's side. He didn't speak Spanish and I didn't speak Arabic, and we barely fucking spoke basic English. So it was a lot of fucking pointing, you know, and I moved with him to another part of California, which was Playa and Ray. I worked two blocks from the beach, so every day I would go after work to watch the sunset and then go home, which was wonderful. And I kind of like I was going to school when I first came to learn English because I knew how to write and read, but I didn't know how to communicate verbally. And then I went to school to learn English as a second language, and it was kind of like the same thing. Like we there was kind of like plenty of us in the classroom, so it was very hard to practice it, and it was a Hispanic neighborhood. So then I moved to apply another way more American, if you would. I fucking learned English really quick because I had to, right? Like, like I was my first thing was more slowly, please, because we have a tendency to speak very fast in our first language, and I didn't understand what these motherfuckers were saying. And I worked in a laundromat, the one that you drop the clothes and then you can pick them up. And I was like, motherfucking slow down, or like fucking short is on a hand stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 12:55

I wanted to where were you in like what state were you working at this laundromat?

SPEAKER_02: 13:00

In California, California, okay. Yeah. What was it in Plyunder Bray, which is very close to LAX. So I was flirting with a client's right, and I told a guy, I'm easy. And she burst up laughing. He said, I know what you mean, but the way to say it is I'm easy going. Yes, it's hard. So for teaching me the right way to say it. And then I started working in doing different jobs, and I learned I was working in the dry cleaners, and then those dry cleaners were expanding into Nevada, and they sent another person to see if we liked it, if because they wanted to expand the concept here. And they sent us in April, and we were like, Oh, yeah, it's a little windy, but it's okay. So we said, Yes, and we move in May, and then it was like 150 degrees. That was really bad. So that's how I end up in Nevada, and then I start working in an office setting. I'm 42, I'm working for the accounting department in a big corporation, and I started kind of like thinking about my future, and I was like, I'm not sure I want to be doing this for another 25 years. So I enroll myself in a school on my bachelor's in social work, right? Like I always had this passion for something else. And I'm like, and I want the listeners to I want to emphasize that if you want to build something new, you can still be doing what you are doing and build that in parallel. So I didn't leave my job. I was still doing training full-time and I enroll in school full-time. So I while I'm doing what I'm doing, because I still need to pay the rent, I'm building a different future.

SPEAKER_01: 15:11

Did you have any hesitations about going and getting your bachelor's at 42?

SPEAKER_02: 15:17

I was terrified because I didn't go to school here. I did high school in Argentina. So, and it was a lot easier to get a GED here than trying to you know translate everything to make it valid here. So I just took a GED. And so I remember by first class I was like so afraid to participate, and I was very self-cautious about my accent and English not being my first language and all those things. But I remember going to talk to my biology professor, and I said, I want to participate, but I'm scared of pronouncing the word the wrong way. And he was an asshole as a professor, but in that meeting, he was very supportive and he loved a book, and he's like, How do you say this? And how do you say this? And then she was like, That is perfect. I don't want you to not participate, and that gave me a lot of confidence, and then I was going to the writing lab, like there was nobody's facing us, because I was like, I want to do it right the first time. The school provided these services, so why not? I graduated at 46. I graduated in December, and I was gonna start my master's in August of the following year. And then six weeks later, I got diagnosed with breast cancer. So surprise, I I wanted to be independently licensed by age 50, which, if I will transfer my master's, then it will put me right on track. And I had I made a choice to take care of myself. So I had surgery and radiation here, and I decided to move back to Argentina to be closer to my family. And when did you move back to out of the year? In June of 2012. So I graduated in December of 2011. I had my surgery in April, and then I moved back in June of 2012. So I continued my treatment there. And a year and a half after I moved, my mom passed away unexpectedly as a heart attack. So I was like, when I look back, it's like, yes, I did go there because of my cancer diagnosis and wanted to be close to my family. But I think that the bigger picture of me going back there was so that my mom could see me that I was doing well. Okay, I don't have children, but I presume as a mom, like I told you, oh no, I'm doing okay, and then I hang up the phone, and you're like, No, you're not, right? Like you're still worried. But she got to see me that I was doing well, and I was responding to the treatment well. So I think that she transitioned in peace because I was there, and she got to see me that I was doing well. So she passed away, and I'm like a year later, a year after she passed, I was angry, and you know, I'm like, I think I'm gonna go back to the States. I wanted to celebrate my 50th birthday here, which was in 2015. So because of the local system in Argentina, you get appointments like three three months in advance, right? And so I had appointments until the end of April. And I made the decision to come back, let's say in January. But I it was like I had to wait, like I didn't want to miss my appointments because I didn't know how long it was gonna take me to re-establish here once I came back. So I'm like, I wanted to get until the last appointment, and that will buy me some time, right? When I come back to the States. So I was praying about it. What the fuck you want for? So out of nowhere, I get an email from University of Nevada in Las Vegas, that's where I graduated with my bachelor's. So they send the email to my personal email. And they were like, Oh, we have the advanced maximum social work program back. Do you want to enroll? I was like, I spot a side and gone, gave me a banner, right? Like I was like, yes, I want to enroll. That kind of like confidence that was the right decision to make. I moved here in May, celebrated my birthday in June, and I graduated a year later with my master's, and I started my internship, and I became independently licensed at 53 and a half. So my goal was to become independently licensed at 50, and it was delayed by three and a half years. Why the fuck do I care? I'm already old anyway, right? So what I have people telling me, like, oh, I'm too old to go back to bitch. Are you starting 42? I have my masters at 50, and English is not my first language. Like you are barking at the wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 21:01

Sorry. So I'm curious what encouraged you to still do it. You mentioned you were afraid to participate and speak up, but you spoke to that professor. And how did that get you to now you're gonna speak up?

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

So cancer came to rearrange my priorities and teach me to put myself first, right? That was my first class in college, right? And as I continued to participate in class and doing well in school and all that, my confidence about participating grew. But when I was diagnosed with cancer, it I was, believe it or not, a recovered people cancer, right? Like I was like, oh, I don't want to offend you, not anymore. But like I don't give a shit now. But cancer came to rearrange my priorities so I put myself first. And going for my masters, and if anything, cancer came to show me how bad I wanted to be a therapist because it didn't stop me at the beginning of my treatment. The treatment is so intensive, right? Like you go to the hospital and doctor like several times a month, and whatever, and then eventually it starts. Like, oh, it's once a month, or once every three months, or once every six months, so it becomes more manageable. And I was like, I feel well enough to be working. I can I can do this, I can go back to school. So I went back to school. Now, mind you, I'm 50, and my classmates are 25. Like I'm the fucking mom in the classroom, right? And then it was like one time there was two girls in front of me, one was 23 and one was 27. And I said, bitches, it takes two of you to be my age. Like, I have to put two of you together, you know. But if anything being around the young people kept me young because like they were teaching me about fucking Instagram and social media, like what the fuck do I know? And they're telling me what to do, how to do it, blah blah blah. Bringing my life experience to the classroom, right? Like, because shit that we were reading in the textbook, I had experience myself, right? Like, so it was like I was so focused on what I wanted to do, which was to be a therapist. And when I graduated, and then I started my internship, and when you were an intern, you provide services to whomever the fact was treated or so I was doing families and couples, children and teenagers and adults. I will say something to a mom, for example, given suggestions about a parenting tip or whatever, and they will take it. Then there was another intern who was probably 25, but she looks 13. The clients will question you, do you have children? Nobody ever questioned me. If you asked me if I had children, I would have told you the truth. But because I was already old, they assumed that I had children. So I'm gonna call the mother and say, I'm like, you know, but because she was so young and she looked even younger, people will question her. They didn't question me. So being a therapist at my age gave me a confidence, transmitted a confidence to the clients that I knew what I was talking about because you assume that boy, I'm fucking old and I know, right? Like, so he helped me connect. So now I work with adults only. He helped me connect with this population because it's like, you know what? Life is too short, I don't have time to be sugar coating. That's why I'm the slang therapist. I'm like, I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell you how I see it. Not necessarily the truth, but I'm gonna tell you how I see it. And then if you want to get better, we're gonna hit the ground running.

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

What would you say was the most difficult part of your breast cancer diagnosis?

SPEAKER_02: 25:48

So I discovered it lunch on my right breast, and I had a mammogram, and then I was sent to a doctor, and then I was sent to a surgeon. He had no fucking he was doing an ultrasound and he said, I don't like what I see, I want to do a biopsy. I was like, I mean, it's also a fucking biopsy. And then he did the biopsy and I had to wait for the result. And I was doing research in different forums of women who were going through this, and one of the things was like, okay, if it is cancer, you ask these questions, if it's not cancer, you ask these questions, and make sure that you bring a friend because it if it is cancer, you're not gonna remember anything after them. That was all on the forums, right? Like, so I brought a friend, here are the questions if it's cancer, here are the questions if it's not cancer. And I'm laying on the I'm sitting on the table, and he's not even making eye contact. Like he's over here looking at the fucking computer or whatever the heck he was doing. And she was like, Yeah, I'm right, you do have cancer. That's how I found out about the diagnosis. So then my friend took over, because I really don't remember anything after that, but the lack of benside manners, so and I think that is because he had been a surgeon, a breast surgeon for many years, he was an older guy, and I think that he was so used to giving this news that he didn't realize that this is life-changing to me, and I think that not having that compassion now and that he was such an asshole because he helped me appreciate my oncologist is a sweetheart, so it's like you know, it gives you a different perspective, but I think that the worst thing was how the news were delivered, and I hope if anybody is a Bradford Jonah, they are listening to understand that it's like you might deal with this shit on a daily basis, but to the patient, these are news that change this person's life. So that was the most difficult thing because then okay, so I have cancer, so what are the plan, what is the plan, what are my options, blah blah blah. Which was the questions that my friend asked because I didn't have the capacity, and then after that, to learn to ask for what I needed. People around the patient I lost a lot of friends because of the diagnosis simply because I didn't know how to fucking be there for me, but also looking back, I said to learn how to ask for what I needed. So because you don't know how to fucking help me, but if I give you a couple of suggestions, then you can grab them and help me, right? Like so at the time I didn't want to talk to nobody, I did tell my family and a couple of close friends, but the rest of the people. So I sent a massive email saying I've been I have this news, I've been diagnosed with breast cancer, I don't feel like talking right now, but I will appreciate an email. And then people emailed me back, and then I read it in my own time, crying, like I cry a lot, but I wanted to cry. In my own time, in my own way. Like I did, I don't want your pity. I wanted you to be there for me. And another thing that I realized is people were very careful about what they were talking to me about. And cancer became the main thing. But I'm still a person. Cancer is one part, like I have cancer. And that's why I say I had cancer, and cancer didn't have me. Because I wanted you, like I had a friend, she was talking to another friend. I didn't want to tell Sulma that I got in a fight with my boyfriend because of what she's going through. And I'm like, no, I want you to tell me that you got in a fight with your boyfriend because it brings me a sense of normalcy. I'm still Solma. I'm not the cancer. But it's like everybody's like walking around with like on eggshells because I have cancer. I'm like, I'm the same fucking bitch I was before the diagnosis. Like, and I didn't want to be cancer to be the center of the conversation. And I understand it is difficult for people because they want to know how you're feeling and what is the plan and when are you going to the doctor and all those things. But I have to talk to the doctors and the tech and everybody about my diagnosis for my medical care. The last thing I want to do is go out to dinner with you and talk about my cancer diagnosis. So tell me about the asshole that he was disrespectful and you got him fight with. You know what I mean? Like it brings me back to the normalcy that I was missing because my entire life was absent. So those things kind of like mark were difficult, but then you know, I found a way around them. But the way that the diagnosis was delivered, and then learning to ask for what I needed. What do I want from you? Now, if you don't if you don't give it to me or you don't have the capacity to give it to me, that's fine. But it's like you cannot say I didn't know because I'm asking what I need for what I need at the time.

SPEAKER_01: 32:21

No, that makes a lot of sense. That sucks that you had that experience with how it was delivered to you. But I really like how you mentioned you had the perspective of really appreciating. I think you said your oncologist. Because I just like yes.

SPEAKER_02: 32:38

And also I realized that I learned to not make it personal. The surgeon is a fucking asshole who has no bedside minders. That has nothing to do with me. If it was you were the patient, he would have done it to you. Mary was the patient, he would have done it to Mary. Because my cancer stage was 2A. So there is like and I learned a lot about cancer, breast cancer, because I said I was gonna fucking die the next day. Here I am 13 years later, right? Like I learned I survived. But if my stage was 2A, which is kind of like in the middle, so say I was gonna die tomorrow, and maybe it didn't make it so attractive to him because it wasn't a challenging case. Sorry to fucking disappoint you that I'm not gonna die tomorrow. You know what I mean? It's kind of like you take your car to a mechanic and they don't want to do the oil change, that's too easy. Like they want to get into the nitty-gritty of what the fuck is wrong with the car. Sorry, I'm a fucking oil change for your ass. You know what I mean? Like, I think that doctors need to relearn these things because you are delivering life-changing news.

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

Yeah, to have some sort of like how you're delivering the information. Absolutely. No, that's not true.

SPEAKER_02: 34:04

I'm not fucking taking it, you know what I mean? Like, but human, that's why I hope that he's retired because I'm like, I hope this motherfucker, like yeah, I see he was all at that time now, 13 years later, he's older.

SPEAKER_01: 34:18

Like, go to Mexico and enjoy your vacation, enjoy your retirement. I love the perspective that helped you appreciate somebody else, like in that similar, like the oncologist, you know. That's that's a really great way to look at it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:35

When you have that boyfriend who was an asshole and a cheater and didn't communicate, and then you meet this new person who doesn't cheat and is not an asshole, and you're like, This is basic stuff, yeah. No, but you don't know what I be through, like so. I do appreciate it, right? Like you opened the door for me, like you know, and you because I will tell my oncologist, I'm like, oh my god, you're such a sweetheart. He is so sweet, and I told him several times, and I'm like, you don't realize how it helped me as a patient when you explain to me because you know about cancer, but this is my body, right? Like, so we I was a very active, I am a very active part of my medical treatment. I don't fucking do it because you are the doctor and you said so. I'm gonna ask questions. Like when I was in Argentina, they wanna do chemo, and I said, What is what are my what is the percentage of why you know of success? And the word 50-50. I said, Oh, shaltily know. You gotta give me 820. Like, you're not gonna poison my entire body for 50% chance that it the cancer cell was missed, and no, it's like you're bombing the entire house to kill the mouse, and the mouse already fucking left. I said, I'll sign whatever the fuck you want me to sign. Like, I'm not gonna sue you if the cancer comes back, and making an informed decision. I'm saying you gotta give me 80, 20, 70, 30 of why you are recommending this, not 50-50. So I had to meet with the attorneys over there to sign that I'm not gonna fucking sue the hospital. And then so did you not do radiation? I did radiation, I didn't do chemo. Okay. So I did a different type of chemo, but not the chemo that is makes you so sick.

unknown: 36:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 36:51

And by no means I'm making medical recommendations, like you, whomever is listening and going through this, discussing with your doctor, but I made my research and I'm like, wait a minute, why are we doing this? As a preventive manner, it is too aggressive for my entire body. So I met with it, and I risked being not taken as a patient because I'm not following the hospital clinical. And I'm like, yeah, but you know what? This is my fucking body. So the oncologist over there was a woman, and she said, if it was me, I will do it. And I said, with all due respect, doctor, it's not you. This is my body. So, bitch, when you get breast cancer, you make your own decision, basically. Wait, I didn't say that part, but it's like you know, and I know that it came with the best intentions, but it's like, no. So then they came up with an alternative plan that it wasn't so aggressive.

SPEAKER_01: 37:57

Oh, see, that there are other fucking ways of preventing this. I'm curious what the alternative way.

SPEAKER_02: 38:04

I would be willing to show chemo too, but it was a different type of chemo. It was 18 applications, it made me very tired, but it didn't make me so sick as the other one we have. It wasn't as aggressive. It gave me early osteoporosis because I was induced into menopause early. I was 46 at the time of my diagnosis. So, in order to do this treatment, I had to be induced. This treatment was for post-menopausical women, and I still had my period at the time. And they said we can induce the menopause chemically, so I get a shot every month so that my period wouldn't come, right? Girlfriend, I was in fucking paradise. Like they share this shit, like a phone. So I got my shot every month, but then one of the big side effects of the treatment was that I was gonna develop osteoporosis earlier. Basically, I had the bones of a 75-year-old at 46. But guess what? I'm not into fucking sports, stream sports, or running a marathon. I don't give shit. So we found an alternative treatment that worked for me. Who has the fucking cancer? So it needs to work for me, not the cookie card treatment, like you know, and again, I encourage anybody who is going through any medical diagnosis to do their research. Inform yourself, ask questions, you know, and I'm asking the questions, and that's why I love my oncologist, because he took the time, like if he will suggest something, he sat down with me and he explained why. When COVID hit, he he suggested that I take the shot, right? Again, I was against the COVID vaccine. And then I started reflecting and I said, Bench, if you trust him with your life for the kids, and mind you, like he had getting the shot, and he his wife got the shot, and he brought his mom from California to Nevada to get the shot, right? So it's not like he's telling me something he's not willing to do. You're treating him with your cancer. You're checking him with your life for the cancer. Like you get to pick and choose what it's good at. So I got the shot. And I told him, I said, you know, I was resistant, but then I started thinking, like, I'm trusting you with my life for my cancer diagnosis. Why the fuck wouldn't I trust you with you know what you're suggesting for COVID? So, you know, like a lot of self-reflection, but also a lot of like like inform yourself so that you can ask questions and then make it make an informed decision.

SPEAKER_01: 41:22

No, that makes so much sense. I want to transition a tad. You call your therapy services dragonfly therapy, and I'm so curious where you came up with that name. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 41:36

So dragonflies represent the change that comes from the inside. So dragonflies fly across the water and they eat the bacteria that is on the surface so that the light can come in into the ocean. So that's how I came up with it because of the symbolic meaning of dragonflies.

SPEAKER_01: 41:58

That's beautiful. They can change okay.

SPEAKER_02: 42:06

Well no, I because therapy is the work that you do to improve yourself, right? You need to change from the inside. I barely know what the fact is with my life. Told you what to do with yours. Like if you are coming to therapy for nothing, girl, that's not what therapy is for. So, what would you say therapy is for? What is therapy for you to discover your own answers? We are gonna discover the answers for you together. You don't have to do it alone though. But I don't have the answers. We are gonna discover the answers together. Because this is your life again, like with the oncologist that said, Oh, I will do it, and I said, Yeah, but it's my body. I know about therapy, but this you are the expert in your own life. So it's like we work together. I say my job as a therapist is to provide you with a different perspective. Because when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture.

SPEAKER_01: 43:17

I love that comment.

SPEAKER_02: 43:19

When you were in the can you say in the picture, you cannot see the picture. So you're telling me something, I'm listening, and I'll provide a different perspective because I'm not in the picture, and I'll give it back to you and say, like, oh, have you conceded blah blah blah. You're like, oh no, I didn't see it that way. So you pay the big bucks, right? So, but we work together, you are the driver, and I'm the passenger, I'm kind of like the GPS. But if you don't turn on the ignition, we are fucking we are not doing, we're not fucking going anywhere because I'm not driving, you are so if you don't want to move, we'll fucking sit in the gun. Nice chatter with you, you know. So, like I illustrate this also, like if you want to build a new home, you go to Home Depot and Lowe's, and you buy the materials, you buy the tools, like you buy all that, you start building your new home. You want to build a different life, a new life. I'll take you to on a shopping spree and show you the tools and show you how to use them. So you want to hang a picture, I'll show you what a hammer is, what an L is, and I'll show you how to do it. But I don't do it for you because next time you need to hang a picture, you're gonna fucking call me. So I'll show you the tools and I'll show you how to use them. But if you want to hang the picture, you have to do it yourself, and you don't have to bring the camera in your purse everywhere you go, you keep it in the garage, you know what it's at, and you know what it's for. No, here is a comment, and this is how you use it, but you do it that's why it's personal work because I don't just sit on my chair and give suggestions, but you had the real therapy happens in between the sessions, not in my office. When you take this the suggestions and you apply them in everyday life, when that motherfucker is upsetting you, and you're like taking that deep breath, taking a step back, analyzing its business personal, right? Which nine out of ten times it's not. And I have a lot of people tell me, and I heard your voice like telling me taking a step back. Yes, that's my job as a therapist. So the 50 minutes we spent together, like the real therapy happened the other six days and 10 minutes. You are not with me. My goal as a therapist for you is to get to the fucking office as soon as you walk in. That means that I gave you the tools, and now you are in the world using them. So that's my perspective on therapy, and that's why my ideal client is a highly motivated adult who wants to get back. I don't have time to be cuddling you into like when you are ready, we know. Bet you fucking call me when you're ready. Like, I don't have time. Life is too fucking short. And I think that they are ready and then they quickly realize they're not. Because we are truly we're gonna hit the ground running. You're gonna find out really quick that, oh shit, like this bitch is serious. But it's your money, it's your time. Like, if I give you homework, I use a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, so it involves a lot of homework, right? And I'll give you homework to take a deep breath and use a grounding technique, for example, right? You're anxious, like, okay, take a deep breath and use a grounding technique. And you come back next week and you are anxious, and said, Did you remember to take a deep breath and use a grounding technique? No, guess what the fuck the homework for this week is gonna be? This technology didn't use it. So if you don't fucking use it, how is that gonna help you? So quickly, people understand that oh shit, yeah. You have to do your part. Like, I do my own fucking work with my therapist, like, and then oh you come a therapist. Bitch, I'm fucking human too. Like, do you talk about me with your therapist? The last thing I talk about with my therapist is your fucking ass. Like, I have my own shit to talk with my therapist, you know. I'm like, I'm talking to my therapist, and she says the same shit. I'm telling my clients, and I'm like, no, that's what I'm fucking teaching. And again, when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture. So that's why I need that neutral person to help me with my own blind spots. Because, like, if I get angry, when we get angry about something, nine out of ten times because we're making we're personalized, right? Like, we're making it about I'm making about me, and it may have nothing to do with me. You're an equally opportunity offender, and I'm offended because you said something wrong. Bitch, you think you're a special, you're no. Like, I'm offending everybody. Like, you're you're making about you, it's not about you, right? Like, so when I get angry about something, I'm like, bitch, are you personalized? Right? Like it because I'm doing and making it about me, and it may have nothing to do with me. So it's like having my therapist guiding me through this thing when I'm angry for a longer period of time. So it's not that I'm not angry anymore. It's just that I don't stay angry as long. That is a sign of my healing. It's not that I'm not having the feeling, it's that I'm not staying in the feeling that long, right? Healing is kind of like a spiral, it's circular, right? Like so you're gonna hit the same spot as you are healing, but it's not about not having feelings, it's about realizing that oh, this shit doesn't affect me as much as it used to. So that's what shows progress. We are looking for progress, not perfection, right? So it's like, oh, I went through a similar situation, and I wasn't angry as much for as long. Okay, we're making progress. Maybe the next situation, you're gonna be like, oh, this is not about me, and they didn't even get to the anger part, but all these reactions are information. That's how I fucking talk to my clients. I'm gonna be like, bitch, shit, fuck, right excel. And if you like, you know, if you're a new client, I'll do a 15-minute consultation to see when I get much. Shit and fuck is gonna come out of my mouth. If you have a problem with that, I'm not the therapist for that, and it's okay. I will give you referrals, yeah, but I'm not gonna sit in my own fucking office that I worked so hard for. Oh gosh, that's the point. You don't even know they're gonna be okay. So I did with anxiety, right? Trauma, anxiety, and depression. And I had people who told me that go, I'm so anxious what's gonna happen next week. Bitch, you might die tonight. Don't fucking worry about it. So take a deep breath, ground yourself, do research. It and you're not gonna be as anxious about the meeting next week, but you're not sleeping tonight, it ain't gonna bring the meeting anytime sooner.

SPEAKER_01: 52:04

So session with Solomon. No, I love how you mentioned and highlighted about like the potent ship of it, even with the doctors, like woking with them, you know, like it's your life, it's your body, it's your mind, even with the therapy, like, but woking together, you know, like driving the car and navigating it, not by yourself or not just following what the therapist says, or just following what the doctor says. Like, I think a lot of people, even medical-wise, assume like, okay, the doctor said X, I've gotta do X. Like, necessarily, you know, it's not the truth. Just because they went to medical school, they don't know, you know, like I hear so often, like on the podcast, from guests saying to me, Oh, the doctor didn't believe this, or the doctor thought this was like you know how you feel. You know what I mean? Nobody else can tell you that. I don't care if you've been in medical school for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02: 53:07

Absolutely, absolutely, and for anybody looking to find a therapist, you are interviewing the therapist as much as the therapist is interviewing you. When we are having those 15-minute consultations, I'm trying to feel your vibe, blah, blah, blah. But you are also feeling my vibe. You don't have to go with me because we are having this fucking 15-minute consultation. You don't have to stay with me if we did the assessment and you're like, I don't feel it. Because 90% of the success of the therapeutic relationship is that we click, is that you trust me. If we don't click, you're not gonna open up because you because I didn't earn your trust. And if you don't open, if you don't feel comfortable, you're not gonna open up. And if you don't open up, we are not gonna talk about what is important. And again, life is too fucking short, you don't have time to waste. So if you are not sure about how you feel about a therapist, give it a couple of sessions. But if by session number three or four you're still not feeling it, thank you. That's this is your fucking well-being, we are talking about. So you start over as many times as you need until you find the right feature.

SPEAKER_01: 54:35

Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. You know, I facilitate breath work as I told you a little bit off air, and like I say all the time, like it's not therapy, but it's a therapeutic method, and I'm not for everybody either. Like, if my sessions, if the things I say, like if I don't resonate with you, like I'm not for everybody. That's okay. Like, even if you want to do breath work, like I know plenty of people that facilitate it as well. They'll believe in the power of breath work, still believe in you doing it, but maybe I'm not the person for you to do it with, you know, and I don't think enough people talk about that. So I appreciate you mentioning that, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 55:12

Because I want you to get mad, so you want me to do breath work, it doesn't have to be with you. You're not the only one who fucking does it, and if it's not resonating with me, I'm gonna feel so uncomfortable. Which if I can go to Peter, and if you feel more comfortable with him, like would you get into a fucking Uber when when the driver is drunk? So like if feeling saying like saying, Okay, fuck you the first time. But if you do it a couple of times and you still don't feel comfortable and you're not clicking with a professional, don't I wish I had known this with that fucking surgeon, right? Because I wouldn't have gone back to him. But I know better now, so I do better now. Like it's not about why didn't I talk him to fuck off? Like I just had a cancer diagnosis, I wasn't in the right state of mind, I didn't know better, but now I know better, so I do better. If you're a fucking asshole to me during our visit, I fucking coming back to you. Fuck you, you're not the only doctor, right? So it's like I need to feel comfortable, like not rush when I'm at the doctor's office. It's like, who the fuck I'm gonna ask the question to? You aren't a doctor, so I want you to answer my question, right? Like, and it might be stupid to you, but it might change my perspective on a certain thing, because if I thought the fucking answer, I wouldn't be here. I freaking go to Google University and get my own answers, right? Like, so and that's another thing I want to say. When I say do your research, inform yourself and don't take Google University, doesn't replace your doctor, right? Like, so use it to ask questions that will clarify your situation, gonna still go to the doctor and ask what the best course of treatment is going to be.

SPEAKER_01: 57:33

I get that. The internet's not gonna tell you everything, and it's not gonna replace your doctor, but it'll give you information and do your research and also go by how you feel. Like your body tells us a lot of things, listen to it and communicate that. Absolutely, thank you so much. I really appreciate you speaking with me.

SPEAKER_02: 57:55

So much fun, and I do it's been an honor being here. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 58:00

Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, of course. I could talk to you for a while. Have you heard of a man named Jay Shetty? Yes, oh my god, I love him. Me too. Wish he wasn't married. Anyways, he ends his podcast. He ends his podcast with two segments that I really like, and I end my podcast with both those segments as well. Okay. The first segment is the many sides to us, and there's five questions, and they need to be answered in one word each. Oh shit, okay. What is one word someone who was meeting you for the first time would use to describe you as? Funny. What is one word someone who knows you extremely well would use to describe you as loyal? What is one word you'd use to describe yourself? Warrior. What is one word that if someone didn't like you or agree with your mindset would use to describe you as concealed? What is one word that you're trying to embody right now? Hope. Second segment is the final five, and these can be answered in a sentence. What is the best advice you've heard or received?

SPEAKER_02: 59:26

You are doing better than you think you are.

SPEAKER_01: 59:30

Why is that the best?

SPEAKER_02: 59:34

Because I couldn't see the promise that I was making. And I wasn't giving myself enough credit.

SPEAKER_01: 59:44

What is the worst advice you've heard or received? Don't try it. What is something that you used to value that you no longer value? Other people's approval. If you could describe what you would want your legacy to be as if someone was reading it, what would you want it to say?

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:11

That everybody has within themselves the power to keep moving forward. So just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:26

If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be? And I want to know why.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:35

Follow your heart because it will take you places outside of your wildest dreams. Thank you so much for speaking with me, Zelma. Thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure, and I want everybody to know that if you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. So keep pushing through. You have a 100% track record of being successful of overcapping any challenges that you face in your life. How do I know because you're here? So this challenge is not going to be any different. Keep pushing through while they are at time. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:22

I love that. Thank you so much, Selma. I really appreciate it. And where's the best place for listeners to connect with you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:30

My Instagram at the Swarin Therapist. And also I started my own podcast. It's called Keeping It Real with Sulma, the Swarin Therapist.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:41

I will link that in the show notes. Thank you. It's my pleasure. Thank you. And thank you guys for tuning in to Meanders Mindset. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to that powerful conversation with Soma. I hope it was as inspiring for you as it was for me to have that conversation with Soma. A few reflections that really stood out to me that I want to leave you guys with to reflect on. First of all, resilience is built. It's not something you're born with. Zoma's story of starting over in a new country at 31 years old and then launching a new career in her 40s reminds us that it's never too late. You can rewrite your story at any point. It takes guts. But the life you want is worth building. One step at a time. Another powerful takeaway that Zoma talked about is that you are allowed to question authority. Whether it's a doctor, therapist, or anybody in any prestige position with some sort of authority, you have the right to advocate for yourself and to question things that they say, things that they tell you. Zoma's cancer journey showed how important it is to ask questions, seek second opinions, and to trust your intuition. Our bodies will tell us things, it will give us science. Next, healing doesn't mean perfection, it means progress. I love how Zoma talked about not staying in emotions as long. Or learning to respond differently over time. That's real growth. Zoma also emphasized that therapy isn't about getting told what to do. Therapy is about discovering your own answers. I loved her metaphor of being the GPS. You are still the one driving the car. Lastly, Zelma is the swearing therapist, but swear words or not, we need more realness and more genuine authenticity in these energetic healing spaces. Zelma shows up unapologetically herself. And that authenticity is exactly what some people need in order to feel safe and seen. Showing up unapologetically, authentically ourselves allows other people to feel safe, to feel comfortable showing up unapologetically as themselves. I hope this episode resonated with you guys. Thank you guys so much for joining me in this episode of Mando's Mindset. Keep breathing, keep shifting. And remember, everything is figure outable. In case no one told you today, I'm proud of you. I'm booting for you. And you got this. As always, if you enjoyed the show, I would really appreciate it if you would leave me a five-star rating. Leave a review, and share with anyone you think would benefit from that. And don't forget, you are only one mindset shift away from shifting your life. Thanks guys, until next time.