Manders Mindset
Hosted by Amanda Russo, The Breathing Goddess, who is a Breathwork Detox Facilitator, Transformative Mindset Coach, and Divorce Paralegal.
Amanda's journey into mindset and empowerment began by working with children in group homes and daycares. She later transitioned to family law, helping people navigate the challenging emotions of divorce. During this time, Amanda also overcame her own weight and health challenges through strength training, meditation, yoga, reiki, and plant medicine.
Amanda also shares her personal journey, detailing how she transformed obstacles into opportunities by adopting a healthier, holistic lifestyle.
Discover practical strategies and inspiring stories that will empower you to break free from limitations and cultivate a mindset geared towards growth and positivity.
Tune in for a fun, friendly, and empowering experience that will help you become the best version of yourself.
Manders Mindset
92: Red Flags & Second Chances: Building Strength and Self-Worth Through Love Part 2 with Debbie Greer Chamberlain
Imagine navigating the tangled web of relationships with a guide who has lived the journey herself. That's what you get in this episode featuring the insightful Debbie Griot Chamberlain on Mander's Mindset Podcast. Debbie opens up about her personal experiences with marriage, sharing stories where she ignored red flags that ultimately led her to profound self-awareness and growth. Her candid discussion about the importance of trusting your instincts and understanding yourself before committing to relationships serves as a powerful reminder of the value of learning from past mistakes and prioritizing the well-being of our loved ones.
Debbie's wisdom extends beyond romantic relationships, offering invaluable insights into building healthy and supportive connections of all kinds. Through heartwarming anecdotes, she illustrates the beauty of relationships founded on mutual respect, kindness, and appreciation. Whether it’s a marriage or a friendship, the episode underscores the joy that comes from embracing our partners just as they are and continually engaging in acts of kindness. Debbie also touches on the pivotal role empathy plays in transforming relationships, and how shared experiences can foster deep connections that nurture personal growth and healing.
The conversation doesn’t shy away from exploring the deeper themes of self-esteem, forgiveness, and resilience. Debbie and I discuss how childhood experiences shape adult behavior, the struggle of rebuilding self-worth after betrayal, and the liberating power of forgiveness. By sharing her story of overcoming adversity and finding love through faith and patience, Debbie encourages us to let go of rigid expectations and seek genuine connections. This episode is a heartfelt narrative that assures listeners of the possibility of healing and growth, urging them to navigate their relationships with empathy, understanding, and hope.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
•How ignoring red flags in relationships can lead to personal growth and self-awareness
•The importance of trusting your instincts and understanding yourself before committing to a relationship
•How to build healthy, supportive relationships based on mutual respect, kindness, and appreciation
•The role empathy plays in transforming and strengthening relationships
•How childhood experiences influence adult behavior and relationship patterns
•The challenges of rebuilding self-worth after betrayal and the power of resilience
•The liberating effect of forgiveness in healing and fostering genuine connections
•Debbie’s journey of finding love through faith, patience, and letting go of rigid expectations
To Connect with Amanda:
linktree.com/thebreathinggoddess
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To Connect with Debbie & her Resources:
•Connect with Debbie on Instagram:
@debgreerchamberlain
•Find Debbie on Facebook
•Buy Debbie's Book HERE on her Website!:
Stepping Stones: Creating Personal Integrity
Welcome to the Manders Mindset Podcast. Here you'll find both monologue and interviews of entrepreneurs, coaches, healers and a variety of other people when your host, Amanda Russo, will discuss her own mindset and perspective and her guest's mindset and perspective on the world around us. Manders and her guests will help explain to you how shifting your mindset will shift your life.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Mander's Mindset. I am your host, amanda Russo, and I'm thrilled to have you here for part two of my conversation with Debbie Griot Chamberlain. If you missed part one, we explored her powerful story of resilience and the challenges she faced growing up in a group home. In this episode, we dive into the complexities of relationships, including the impact of betrayal and the shame that can come from past hurts. Debbie shares her insights on love and acceptance and how we can navigate our emotions and expectations in our connections with other people. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I encourage you to go check that out, but for now, let's go ahead and jump into part two and uncover all the wisdom that Debbie has to share with us.
Speaker 3:You can hope and dream all you want to, but you got to put some actions behind it.
Speaker 2:No, that's so true. You know I like how you mentioned, like making decisions. You know my mom doesn't love this conversation that I have with her all the time, but I tell her. You know, the biggest lesson I learned from her is I'm going to be very selective before I just have some man's child because I've seen what she? Yeah, because it it it affects, you know, whether they're in the kid's life or not. It affects a lot for the child. Like, we might get along, we might like me and some man, I might like you, I might whatever, but I'm not just having a child with any man, right?
Speaker 3:And you know that's so amazing. You know, amanda, I applaud you for that because I think that is such an important decision. I mean, I think and even I did not think about that Like I married late, I had my children late, but I married a man who I should have never married, and he showed me all the signs, all the red flags, flags. But it took me years to figure out what it was that I was doing that made me continue to live in that pattern and they're all patterns like most of the relationships I'd had was because, uh, some man told me he couldn't live without me, or I was the his dream and I didn't pay. You know, oh my gosh, I must be amazing if that's the truth. Oh, trust me, they can't live without me. Or I was his dream and I didn't pay. You know, oh my gosh, I must be amazing. If that's the truth, oh, trust me, they can live without you and they will. But I, you know, I don't regret it because I have my two children. But, trust me, I know it was a bad decision, I knew it was a bad decision at the time when I married him, and but I made sure I stayed divorced for 20 years because, first of all, I was never bringing a man into my home where my young children were period, because after what I'd lived through, I would be stupid to do such a thing. My responsibility was to those two children to keep them safe that I brought into this world, and that was my first priority and it was my first responsibility. So I'm married 20 years later, but I chose much better this time because I knew myself much better.
Speaker 3:And you know, and people making bad decisions about who they marry, I mean, gosh, it's a wonder any of us do it.
Speaker 3:Well, we usually marry young. We don't know who we are, they don't know who they are, and you know, and somewhere everybody starts growing differently and thinking differently and changing, and they're not keeping up with each other, they're not growing at the same, they're not on the same page about their values or their beliefs, and so what are any of them worth, right? I mean I'm thinking 30, 35,. Nobody should even look and get married until they know who they are and know what it is they want out of life. And you still won't know there, because it still takes a lot of living, a lot of experience, a lot of life to figure out who you are and what you want. But I think as women we just won't, and men too. You just want to be loved and the first time that looks like something that you think it might look like and you know, we don't think too much further than that, we don't think about down the road and what that's going to look like. So make a good choice.
Speaker 2:That's true. So you know there were a lot of red flags with your first husband, but you ignored that. There were red flags and first husband, but you ignored them.
Speaker 3:There were red flags and, trust me, there always are, but we just throw those away. Like one of my favorite sayings is Maya Angelou's when someone shows you who they are, believe them, but we don't. We make excuses for them, right? We make excuses for why we feel that they do the things that they do. We push it aside, we ignore it and then we pay for it later. But people will always show you who they are. They always will but we just do not pay attention, or we don't believe them, or we make excuses because we want something other than what we really probably shouldn't even be involved in.
Speaker 2:So did you ignore the red flags? Of course I did. Of course I did, yes, absolutely I did, but you thought in the moment they were red flags.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, I did. We broke up for a little while and it was because of the red flags, but then when somebody comes back, oh, I love you, can't live without you, I'm very, so, special. And you know, and it makes sense to me now because, coming from where I came from, I never felt special. You know, there was a man professing his love for me and then I was special and he couldn't live without me and wow, up for me. And then I was special and he couldn't live without me and wow, okay, well, they can and they do. That's uh, but yeah, but I don't think that's a normal for most women or men. You know most will tell you right now, in a better relationship, that they knew somewhere in their gut yeah, and why do so many people stay?
Speaker 2:why do you think that?
Speaker 3:well, they stay because they're stuck at that point, I guess. But they to carry it further when you already know in your gut, because I just think we it's, I think it's a universal thing we just all want to be loved, we all want to be cared for and we are hanging on to some kind of hope that it will be good and we will be loved. Well, or it'll get better, right, yeah, or it'll get better. You know, women, they make the biggest mistakes of thinking they can change someone, especially a man. Oh man, you better take him just as he is, because you're not going to change him. And that's what I told my husband. I said you know, like he was like why haven't you ever got married since then? Because I was waiting until I found somebody I didn't want to change and I can live with whatever baggage they had, and so far you've got the least baggage of any of them and so far you've got the least baggage of any of us.
Speaker 3:No, I married my husband because he was the most amazing man who understood the things that I needed. Like I'm a boundaries person, he understood boundaries. When he said he was going to do something, he did it. He didn't procrastinate. He didn't not do it, he did it to me. Like, even now, to this day, I have to be very careful about asking him to do something, because it don't matter what he's in the middle of, you'll get up and go do it. I go, what are you doing? I'm gonna go do with you. No, you don't not in me right this minute, you know, but that's the kind of man I married.
Speaker 3:I married a man who's a man's man, who decided that he was going to treat me like I was the most important person in his life, you know, the person that held the most priority for him, and he also. He makes me feel safe. He's always made me feel safe. He guards my heart, he speaks to me kindly and he's a man that can be tough with other people. Matter of fact, he just retired, but he was in charge of an insurance company, the claims department, which is where you fight toe to toe with bad people. And so when we started dating and all his guys who worked for him, they were like, thank you for making him so much nicer, because he's known as a tough dude. And but I remember when they first saw me, they were like, oh my god, he's gonna eat her for life because he's just, you know, he's just very straightforward, he's very firm, he's no nonsense and never crossword, never. He treats me with the sweetness and just the kindness and everything. Sugar, this and sugar that you know. Sugar, what can I do for you? Sugar, what can I make you like better Sugar? What can I? And that's how he's always treated me. So it makes me feel very safe and it makes me feel very loved, very honored and very, very adored.
Speaker 3:And what else does a woman want? You know, I can make my own money. I could take care of myself. You know he takes care of my cars. He washes both of them every week. You know, make sure, not like for 20 years.
Speaker 3:I had to do that. I didn't know anything about cars. So I I got ripped off all the time. An oil change would cost me $500. And I was like, why is everybody else advertising them for $69 and they're costing me $500? Because I knew nothing about cars.
Speaker 3:So everything that I needed done, that in my world a man could do. I didn't have anyone to do that, and so he comes along, man, I, you know, we've been together 11 years. I've been married all my six. I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. I go, you go get my whole future, shane, so I don't have to fight with him about giving him $400. So he does it all and it's just really nice.
Speaker 3:But I, in return, do amazing things for him, because that's how a relationship supposed to be. I bring him coffee in bed every single morning because he loves that, and we sit and drink our coffee together and we talk about life. And I bring him breakfast in bed on Saturday and Sundays and our puppy sits in his lap and I bring the puppy his breakfast and they eat together. And you know and I do it because I want to, because I want him to know that I cherish him and that I love how he loves me, and I love that he keeps me safe and that he wants to take care of me.
Speaker 3:And some of my girlfriends go oh, he's going to. You know, you're going to ruin him. No, I'm not going to ruin him. I'm honoring the things that I feel so grateful for in him. And if people would quit worrying about being, even in their relationships, like, but instead practice outdoing good things for each other, how amazing would that be. And that's what he and I do. We spend our time trying to outdo the good things we do for each other. I mean, can you imagine the difference in what relationship would be?
Speaker 2:I really like that, Even outside of like a romantic relationship, even if you think about friendships, you know out doing the good things or the good things you say to people you're in close relationships with. You know, instead of comparing or getting even or any of the negative, you know, yeah, like what is that saying, friendship doesn't count favors?
Speaker 3:I know, my good friends, I don't keep up with what we do for each other. We just do things for each other because we care for each other. And we, you know we like each other. And oh, we, you know we like each other and we don't keep a record of who owes who, what we fight over who's going to pay for lunch. You know, oh, I got yours because you got mine last summer, you know. And I'm like, no, no, today I do this with one of my best girlfriends. I'm like, yeah, but today's special. And she's like, why is today special for me? Because you're here. You see, that is your opinion. Yeah, it's just nice. It's just nice to do things for people that you care about. Yeah, I know we practice that more because we do it more with our friendships, I think, than we do with our intimate relationships, and then we wonder why they go bad.
Speaker 3:You know, we can't even treat the person that we lay our head down beside every night. We can't treat them as kind as we do our best friend. There's something wrong with that. Yeah, right, that's true?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. You mentioned something in your book when you were talking about relationships, about how a basic want of us is somebody that just doesn't judge us and we can be our full accepted self around Mm-hmm right.
Speaker 3:Would you say you got that in your second marriage. Oh, absolutely, I can't do no wrong in this man's eyes and I know I do, but you wouldn't know it from him. And talking about judgment too, in all the volunteer work I did. And you can't judge people if you're gonna help them either, because they know, you know and yeah, so you, you, and it doesn't mean you can't be honest, it doesn't mean that you can't be firm like I. When my girlfriends ask me for advice, I usually say this you want the truth or you want it watered down, because I can do either. Yeah, I love it. I love it because you love it, because you can, right. But you learn the friends are the people who you can. You have to water things down just a bit for them, right. And then you know the friends that you can hit right between the eyes, right, and that's because you have built these relationships with them. So you understand like some have to be really pampered about how you give information to them and it's um, you can just like stop it, girl, that's just dumb, yeah, and you know, and it's just, and it's like any relationship you have to that.
Speaker 3:But I can remember when I had a friend who was working with women, who had got everywhere in a halfway house, and they took us. It was like Christmas time and I go in, I've got on my four inch heels and my suit, my big purse and my jewelry and everything and at first they just crossed in their arms like this. They're like, oh my gosh, who is? Is this little twit walking? You're all prissy and everything. And you know you can see I'm like, oh my God, another little do-gooder. But it took about 90 seconds of talking to them and I always say, like pain recognizes pain, hardship recognizes hardship, compassion recognizes compassion. We spot that in each other. And then all the other girls. This was my first time. They had been there before and we're walking out and they're like what in the world just happened? And they didn't know I was raised where I was raised. These were not close friends but just acquaintances from business and stuff.
Speaker 3:So I hadn't shared my story with too many people and when they learned they were like, oh my gosh. When one lady said, well, they scare me a little and I go. Well, I can understand that, but I felt very at home with them Because I know what they lived through and what they went through and that's what they recognized in me that there was no judgment on my side, you know. And so they told me things they would never speak of to these other women, because that's what happens. They do that and because they recognized that I wasn't there to judge and that I was there to help in any way that I could.
Speaker 3:And what I found out, which I wanted to remind everyone when you have these women who have gotten out of prison like that, most have been abused as little girls. Their innocence was stolen so early. Girls, their innocence was stolen so early. And how in the world are they supposed to know their value or worth when something like that happens and no one's ever told them that they have value or worth and that it wasn't their fault but that they are of value.
Speaker 3:And I think we don't think about those things, you know, because not too many people are going to run around telling you those kind of very personal things, right, yeah? But that was the common denominator in most of those women, almost all of them and I thought well, of course they don't think they have any value or worth. No wonder they settle for so little, no wonder they end up on their own path, right, and it's a terrible thing. So I think, as women, it's our job to recognize that and to listen and to tell them okay, you've screwed up really big so far, but how about, from this point on, let's find a way to help you get out of that, because that's another thing. You don't know what you don't know, and if someone's not willing to be there to guide you and to show you, how else are you going to learn?
Speaker 2:You know, you, and to show you how else are you going to learn. You know, I say that all the time about everything. It doesn't matter what it is, even like. People have asked me like I've started going to these podcasting conferences and people are like, why do you do this with the podcast? And that's my famous line listen here, buddy, you don't know what you don't know. I'm using this because this is what I know. If I didn't know xyz existed, not going to use it like I'm doing what I know, it's a different example, but you know right.
Speaker 3:But you're right, it works in every aspect of your life and it, you know, our lessons are hard lessons. Most of our lessons are life lessons. Most are experience and maturity lessons and you don't get to skip all that. You have to live this life to get there to that point. And I think we forget that too, like young kids, and they're like the young teenagers and the young adults and they're like, oh well, they just haven't lived yet.
Speaker 3:We were just as dumb as we feel, like most of them were. I mean, trust me, nobody can say they weren't Like we did some stupid things because we were young and we didn't know any better and we had to learn the life lessons to get there. And it's going to take time and it's going to take experience, and then you'll finally get there. And it's going to take time and it's going to take experience, and then you'll finally get there. But hopefully you still learn things every day and I love to learn, I love to read, I just I read everything. You know. It's like my husband said you're the smartest woman I know. Well, I only know a little bit about a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:Now, in terms of judgment, would you say you felt judgment in your first marriage?
Speaker 3:oh, not really I, I know I I didn't. I. He was just really unavailable emotionally, mentally and physically in every way you know. And he had a tough childhood, not in the same way that I did, but more of a mental toughness. And when you can start to understand someone's upbringing, like I would always tell my children it's not that your father doesn't love you, it's just I don't think he's capable of understanding how. Because you got to be taught that too, right, you just do. You have to be taught how to love somebody if you didn't have a really good example of it. And it doesn't make it okay, because I for one am one of the first ones to say you can't use those things as excuses Because if you do, then you get out a free card for everything in life. Excuses because if you do, then you get a get out a free card for everything in life.
Speaker 3:I never saw an example of what a normal family or marriage look like, but it wasn't going to stop me from figuring it out, because basically here's what it takes it takes putting someone else above yourself, period. It takes not being selfish and self-centered. It takes being available to that other person and it takes going out of your way to do the things that you might not want to do and to compromise where you might not want to compromise, to make a relationship work and to make it work well, and those are all tough things to do for most people. Then take a rocket scientist and figure all that out. You know how about you just treat me how you want to be treated. You know we can all break it down to that little bitty thing too, and so, yeah, there's no excuses really I completely agree, but I I get what you're, what you mean by like they didn't know how to love.
Speaker 2:you know, like I I relate to that with my father. I don't think he ever experienced true, unconditional love from really anybody, right?
Speaker 3:Not that it excuses the behavior and there's still a way to be able to love, but it makes me understand it a little bit, and understanding it does help, because here's one of the things I have a hard time understanding Like I have adults still saying well, my parents did this to me, or my parents did that to me, and this is why I do this. It's the only thing I know, it's the only way I know to be, or I must have been a terrible person for them to have left. Now I understand that when you're a child, because that makes sense. But as an adult, like I, feel you are just using that as an excuse at that point, because if you're not smart enough to realize that nobody should be beating and banging on you all day long, every day, for stupid stuff or stuff you don't even know why, or no one should starve you to death because you have a problem, then that, to me, is where somebody needs to.
Speaker 3:You know, stop and think for a minute and say am I really that stupid that? I would think and maybe that's the wrong word to use, but it really aggravates me, and it always has that these intelligent people that I know will do that, and I'm sure a psychiatrist would say well, that's a terrible thing to say, and it probably is. That's a terrible thing to say, and it probably is, but to me I never, as a child, looked at myself and said, oh, I must have been terrible and that's why they did that. I just knew, like I think, somewhere deep down, you know, that's not right, it's not my right behavior and it's not a right way to be treated by any, you know, and I just feel like it's almost a cop-out by the time you get to an adult where you can reason and think, and you got to look at them and go, man, they had the problem, not me as a little child, you know yeah and I don't know no, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 2:I think you, it makes a lot of sense, like you mentioning like, as you get to being an adult, because, like as a kid, even a teenager like I, can see the difficulties in seeing that you know, like, even having not lived enough life yet to fully grasp where they're coming from.
Speaker 3:And especially if no one's ever told you like no one's ever said it wasn't your fault, you had nothing to do with this, it wasn't you because I do see that in a child, and in a especially very young children and even teenagers like because it seems hopeless. But at some point you've got to, as an adult, take responsibility and not take all that on your shoulders and say like, look, it was them, it wasn't me, because you're not going to do yourself any good and you're not going to climb out of that hole unless you do at some point acknowledge that that's true.
Speaker 2:I really like how you mentioned earlier, you feel bad that they missed out on the amazing kids that you guys turned out to be, and I think that's a great way, great like mindset shift. For you know, like even recently, my birthday recently passed and my mom asked me she's like did you hear from your dad? And I was like of course I didn't know why would he text me? And she was like I'm sorry. And I was like I'm not. And she's like what do you mean? And I'm like I'm not sorry, like I'm pretty dope. He missed out on a pretty dope person. Like a lot of people love to talk to me, a lot of people love to be around me, like I'm a blast. And she's like, oh my god, I'm like listen, I'm so healthy, that's so good. You know that's his loss and then you know what, I'm sure the day will roll around when he thinks he's going to roll back in and it's like by then, they always do, honey.
Speaker 2:Oh I know by then I probably won't have anything to say. You know it is what it is, but it's like I think that's a great shift. Is there anything that helped you shift, to feel that way?
Speaker 3:No, not that I can really point my finger to and think about that. I, just like I said while ago, I never took on that normal thing of oh, we must have been bad kids that deserved this somehow. I never once. I can remember like it was yesterday, sitting on the front porch, I had a little blue and white polka dotted dress on my little legs crossed. When we came home and we were locked out of the house and our mother was gone and my older sister is screaming because the two babies are in the house, locked inside the house, and my little brother, yes, when she left and we came home from school and my older sister, my brother and myself and she's screaming, oh my, you know, my baby, she's calling her babies, they're inside. And and I remember just sitting there and thinking what is so different about today than any other day? She's never around or she's never taking care of us, and I just remember thinking that my sister needed to be quiet and quit, screaming like that. I mean, that was the mentality I always had.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, going to my father and stepmother and them beating us, and her especially, and I remember thinking something was wrong with this woman. She is evil or something. Something is terribly wrong with her. I just always knew it was her and I don't know how I did. It's just like in my speech that I give, I tell a story about faith, right, and I talk about how when she used to place us in a corner for punishment, cross-legged, our head, pushed down into the corner, and she would come by, walk by and she would either slam her head into the wall or kick us in the back and say nasty things to us, like you're stupid, you're ugly or whatever you know. And I can remember praying and I'll always pray, and this is why my faith, like, and I would say please, god, send a good family. You know, please send a good family and take me out of this, because something is terribly wrong here. I don't think I belong with these people, and I can remember that.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, god has a sense of humor, because all of a sudden I'm ending up in the Tennessee Baptist Children's Home with 120 kids and I'm thinking, wow, this is your answer, you know, like that's a sense of humor, right, but it was a good place for me, you know, and it taught me great lessons and it taught me a lot of things that made me successful in life. You know, it taught me about the goodness of people. It taught me about working hard. It taught me about the goodness of people. It taught me about working hard. It taught me about building character. It taught me about dreaming and seeing a life that I wanted and that was possible. And it continued to build my faith, which is very important to me.
Speaker 3:I need that to go on in times of really tough life, what the challenges that they throw at you. But you know, I never even then thought, oh my gosh, we must be terrible kids. I was like, oh, I think I'm at the wrong place here. Somebody needs to get me out of it. And I don't know, maybe it's an arrogance, or is it a discernment, something that God gave me, when I talk about the gifts, the talents and the abilities that he gives you, because it's not like he doesn't know what you're going to go through. I mean, those aren't surprises to him. So I believe he gives you everything that you'll need if you'll use them.
Speaker 2:And I use them. Now I gotcha. I just wasn't sure because, honestly, I don't know how I developed this like mindset because I haven't always had it. But even my mom asked me recently. She's like where did this come from? I'm like I don't know, but I'm pretty great. You've seen so like it's his loss and you know it. I'm pretty great, you've seen so like it's his loss and you know it's a great way to look at it.
Speaker 3:It is, and it's healthy, and you know, and you're happier for it. You know, mm-hmm, that's what we all want to be. We want to be emotionally and mentally and psychologically happier, you know.
Speaker 2:And to feel good about ourselves. Now you mentioned in a different podcast that I heard you on about relationships. You were talking about giving up your expectations about what your posts and looks like, all your specifics. I would love if you could delve into why you you mentioned like giving up these expectations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well is a quote-unquote list of your, your list. Yeah, lists are so dumb, throw them away um I was laughing out loud.
Speaker 2:I was like yo, I'll have a list, and I'm like every girl has a list. Every girl has a list.
Speaker 3:Every girl has a list right. But just to go back, 12 years ago, I had back surgery and for all practical purposes, I was practically crippled until I got into surgery and had it all repaired and my girlfriends were all coming over and taking turns, you know, taking me to the doctors. I laid on my belly in their car and screamed because it hurt so bad. And you know, take care of me because both my children were away at college. And so when I came out of the hospital about two and a half three days later I was on Motrin and I could walk and there was hardly no pain and it was the most amazing thing. But I always did my devotion and my meditation every morning. And I guess it was about two weeks into that that I was having my morning devotion and I just said I think I'm ready to have someone in my life, you know, not a boyfriend, but a husband, a partner. And so I thought, girl, you are doing a terrible job about picking these men. So how about we get a little help? And I'm a prayer warrior I always have been and so I just prayed and I said God, please send me the man that you know is perfect for me. You know better than I do what I need, what I don't need, and I don't care what he looks like, what he has, what he doesn't have. I just need him to be who you've chosen for me, because you know better than I what I need. And he did. He knew a lot better than I did, and so I need his name to be Michael. So I know that you sent him because Michael is the warrior angel and it's always been my favorite name. I learned about that at the children's home when I was about 13, 14 years old, about Michael the warrior angel, and when I would pray, I'd say put your angel in charge of me to keep me safe, right. And so, anyway, I said I need his name to be Michael. So, no, you sent him.
Speaker 3:Two and a half weeks later, here comes my who. I meet at a restaurant with some friends that I'm there with, and he asked me to dance and his name's Michael. And I'm like, oh dear God, like is this what you sent? Like don't you think I'm a little cosmopolitan for this country guy here? But I was obedient, because you don't ask for something spit in God's face? That is not going to work. So I was obedient and it turned out to be the most amazing man that gave me everything I never knew I needed, absolutely adored, which was being taken care of in a physical and emotional way of safety and feeling so safe and comfortable, who understood boundaries, who made me a priority every single day and I was and you were telling me earlier about laughing like this.
Speaker 3:I always said that in a room full of 25 men, he would have never been the one I would have picked and he wouldn't have been, because we all have these things about our type and our type isn't working anyway, right, so maybe we should try something a little different, like a different time.
Speaker 3:But I'll say, yeah, you still my girlfriends. If you're going to keep asking for a six foot two guy, god's going to send you somebody five foot two. So stop it, because, trust me, the sense of humor that god has, he's gonna put you in your place real quick. But you know, I've had girlfriends are like he needs to be six foot two, needs to carry a briefcase, I need his hair to be blonde, I want his eyes to be blue and I'm like really, and I said, but what y'all are you are doing is missing out on some most amazing beautiful men who want to take good emotionally, physically, mentally, even financially care of a good woman who will just believe in them and trust in them. And so y'all are all missing out because I keep hearing there are no good men. Well, there are good men. You're just not giving them a chance.
Speaker 2:So do you think that the answer is giving up the list?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, absolutely. Why are you going to do a list? Here's what's important, like the list of honest. A man with integrity, like my husband, has more integrity and more character and more honor than any man I've ever met in my life. He's the most psychologically healthy human being I've ever met in my life too. He's an only child. I always say he was loved well by a mother and taught well by a father, and that's what every child needs and deserves. But most of us don't get it. And so those things you need and want in a person. But I think if you're really looking, then you know to look for those things. But we get sidetracked by the pretty bells and whistles. I mean, there's nothing better than a good, smelling, handsome man. Let's face it, you can get a little sidetracked by that.
Speaker 2:That's fair, yeah right, so how do we avoid getting sidetracked? You got any tips for that?
Speaker 3:yeah, slow down, slow down. You know it will. Women are so quick that they almost act out of desperation. And if a man values you, he's going to act like he values you. But you know, a lot of times we don't even ask to have a value put on us.
Speaker 3:I did, like my glad. I had six, seven dates with him and on that sixth one I went dude. I know what my girlfriends are doing. I'm not doing that because I'm not sure how I feel about you. I'm not feeling it totally for you, but I find you just intriguing enough. If you're willing to get to know me and me get to know you, then I'm willing to do that. But if you don't want to, I'll get it. And he looked at me and he said I think you're beautiful, I think you're the smartest woman that I've met and if you will give me a chance, I will take as long as you want for you to get to know me. And I know already, if you tell me to leave I'll be very sad, but I'm willing to do that.
Speaker 3:We've got to be willing to slow down enough to ask for the respect that we deserve, to ask for the value and the worth that we are going to bring to the table. But how are they going to know that if we don't demand that? You know, if you act like you have no value or worth, they're not going to act like you have any value or worth, and that's men or women on both sides, period. You've got to decide how you're going to be treated up front. And before you get to that point, you know. And if you're just looking for a good time, then continue. You know, continue on your way. So I mean, that's none of my business, I'm not going to say anything about that. But if you're looking for a real relationship and someone that's going to honor you and care for you, then slow it all down a bit and see if they find you worthy of waiting.
Speaker 2:Well, that makes sense. Can we backtrack a little bit to post you leaving the children's home going to college? How that was a little bit about your college experience. Sure Post that like when, how soon after college, you got married, how soon you had the kiddos you had the kiddos.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, when I went to college, I started four weeks after I graduated from high school, so I told you I had to live there the whole time. So I only dated one guy the whole time and started dating him as a senior in high school and he went to college with me and he was raised at the children's home and yeah, was raised at the children's home and yeah, and so anyway, we got married about three and a half years after, because he was two years older than me, after college, and we were married for exactly two years and on our anniversary I filed for a divorce. He had been cheating the whole time. I had this tendency that I picked these men that were very emotionally not available and cheaters, but I knew nothing. I was just innocent as everything about that and I didn't want to get married. And three days before we were supposed to, I called the children's home, who were doing the wedding for me, and I said I don't want to do this. And they said quit being a brat. People have already paid for you to have a wedding people from the church and so you will go through with it.
Speaker 3:And I was a doormat then and so I did, and it was the worst experience. He was from the children's home. I was from the children's home. What did we know? And he was a cheater. He'd been cheating on me while we were dating, which I didn't know, and people told me afterwards. Everybody loves to tell you things afterwards. But anyway I divorced him exactly on the day of our second year anniversary.
Speaker 3:We had gone to Birmingham, alabama, and he had gotten a job there. So I brought my little dog, my clothes and my car and I came back to Nashville. I had nowhere to stay and my roommate from college, her parents, let me stay with them. And so I got a job about four weeks later and got my own place and started my wife over and I was divorced, probably five years maybe, and I met my ex-husband who I was married to for 17 years and I had built one company before I met him and it was an exercise studio with a mentor, older woman friend of mine. I was the sales manager for the better business bureau and she was like my mentor and so she wanted us to open an exercise studio called body talk in his hickory hall, open and right outside of nashville and it's a mall area, and so that was my first company I ever built.
Speaker 3:And then and I worked that part-time, like 12 hours a week of classes why I worked a full-time job. And then I became the sales manager for the Better Business Bureau under her and so I had just married Stephen, who is my children's father and was married to for 17 years, and we went to look at our first, for our first house a little condo and I met his neighbor and she said you should go into real estate. And I was like really, you think? And her name is Jane McCracken and she was a real estate agent. And so about a month later I had my real estate license. So I went to the Better Business Bureau and told them I quit, I was going to go work in real estate. So I went to work for Business Bureau and told them I quit, I was going to go work in real estate.
Speaker 3:So I went to work for a company called First Management Services and they were managing and building and redoing condominium conversions which were taking old apartments and turning them into condos and selling them. So I was on the sales staff with two other women. About six months into that, these two other women said we should open our own company, and so I'm 27 years old and I'm like, sounds like a great idea. So I did that and it was called Condominium Conversion Investments CCI Inc. And we built some little condos over at a little place called Patio Villa and had our little pictures in the paper with our little hard hats on. We were just like the cats meowing at the time. And so, anyway, the secretary ran off with the furniture, the treasure I'm sorry, she ran off with the furniture, the secretary and the money, and so me and the other lady tried to keep the company open for about a year and then we finally closed it down and I had just become pregnant then with my son, and so I just went from there and then two years later I had my daughter and then, I guess nine years later, I divorced my ex-husband because he cheated and I called him and I just I'm not very good at the betrayal when that happens, like in a marriage I just I knew I couldn't stay.
Speaker 3:I knew I would never want him to ever touch me again. That was not going to work and there were so many lies and he had gone on for so, so long behind my back. But you know, you feel really stupid. Now that's the part that people don't understand. The betrayal comes in, but the humiliation is even worse. And so we divorced and, like I said, I was divorced for 20 years. Meanwhile, one good thing I'll say about him he always financially took really good care of his children Always, and that's a blessing and it's something to be recognized. And because I had so many friends that were divorced who didn't have that, and I've always been very grateful for it and I appreciate him so much at least doing a really good job of that, because it meant a lot of how me and my children and our life went. It enabled me to get jobs and start creating a life of my own.
Speaker 3:To where I started my first, I went back into real estate and but six months after that I started building my very first company for someone in that industry. It was Call Center, and I did that and did that for about seven years and then he sold the company and then I met the gentleman who I've been working with for 14 years until I retired. The gentleman who I've been working with for 14 years until I retired, helping him to build his company. It was a mortgage company and he was the most fabulous human being, a younger, 20 years younger than me. He's like my son, who I totally like, I'm just so grateful for I was surrounded by some amazing, wonderful people who gave me really great opportunities, and then, at the same time, I was building a title company too. So, anyway, that's what I did for those 20 years, and then now I retired three weeks ago and I'm starting my new venture, which I've been planning for 14 years. So, even though it's just here, I've been working on it for a very long time.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations on retiring and I'm going to thank you for using me.
Speaker 3:I knew I'd always get to my God purpose work. But you know what, amanda, I needed all these experiences. You know I did. I needed them, every one of them. I needed them to be able to understand my own convictions, my own beliefs, to understand the compassion, to understand how hard it really is to do the things that you have to do to be successful in life. And you know I needed all those experiences and I needed all that time. I'd always have friends that would say, but I'm a very patient human being and I knew when the time would be right. And there's no doubt in my mind that now the time is right, that now the time is right and this is the time for it.
Speaker 2:I like how you mentioned because I don't think this is talked about enough about the humiliation part of the betrayal. Now, I've never been married so I don't have that experience, but I'm pretty young. But my longest relationship was five years and he cheated on me. We broke up at one point, got back together, cheated on me again, same woman multiple times. I had a lot of shame around that. I had a lot of humiliation around that. I don't think a lot of people talk about that factor of infidelity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, even if the devastating thing it really is, because on one hand, like I've always known, I was a smart woman. But how come I didn't know and I didn't? And I always hear people say, oh, they knew, they. I truly I write, and it's so immediately and you're just, how could I be so stupid?
Speaker 3:And then I remember that was such a terrible time and I probably was awake for about four days, hadn't I? I was awake and I was thinking of killing myself and my two children and, by the grace of God, I tell you, I believe in angels, my grandmother and grandfather, who have been dead for about five years. I tell you whether I was hallucinating or they just came to me but they said call your little sister and have her come over now. So I did. I picked up the phone at 2.30 in the morning. My little sister came over and she sat with me until that morning and we took my little children on the school bus and then she went with me to the doctor. We sit on his doorstep until he walked in my you know, physical, my primary care doctor, and I remember saying that I'm so humiliated, I'm so stupid, and he said no. So humiliated and I'm so stupid. And he said no, people who are kind like you, their mind does not go where his mind did you can't comprehend. Could you have cheated on him? No, it's just not in me, I couldn't have. And they said. He said never be humiliated by something that you could not even conceive or think of to do.
Speaker 3:You know, it's that same saying people that think they're being cheated all the time are usually the ones who are cheating. Yeah, people that think that other people are trying to, you know, take something of theirs, whatever because they're trying to take something of someone else's. Someone who assumes someone lies all the time is because they probably lie all the time. But people we assume people are like us right. I mean consciously or subconsciously. We know they're not right. Now, everybody's like us, but there's some point in your brain to where you think, especially someone who you're living in the same roof with, that they think like you, they act like you, they feel like you, they react like you, and it's not necessarily the truth and that's a hard lesson to learn. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a hard lesson to learn. That's true. That makes so much sense when you said it's humiliating to you because it's not in your mind that, like you can't fathom that you know even outside of the infidelity. Like me thinking in terms of even my father, like I can't fathom people doing the things that some people do to kids. That's why I can't fully understand it, because in my mind it's not something I'd ever do.
Speaker 3:Right, right, you know that's like a gentleman that was on his podcast the other day and he got stuck on that idea for a moment and he was like I can't comprehend. I have a 10-year-old daughter. I can't comprehend how somebody could run off and leave their children, you know, and he goes. It just is something I can't wrap my head around. And again, I can't either. Not my two children, I mean, I've laid down my life for either one of them and that new little baby, grandbaby, in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't think twice about that, I know I wouldn't, and so it is hard to comprehend those things I like how you mentioned, though, never being humiliated by what you wouldn't do to somebody else, right, because it's them. When you can't make somebody be who they are.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a character flaw. I don't care how you look at it, it's a character flaw, it just is, because there really is no reason for that. You can always be honest and say like I don't like this situation, I'd like out of it, and that's the really mature and honest way to do something for anyone, man or woman, and I don't think that it's. You know, it's an honorable thing to do to someone. It changes their lives and it has ruined a lot of people's lives. It didn't ruin mine, but I wasn't going to let it. Now I've got news for you. There were a couple of months there. I was pretty sure it might. You know it was tough.
Speaker 2:So you went to the doctor with your sister and did he help you from there?
Speaker 3:Yes, he was just so great. He just gave me these really wonderful talks and stuff. And you know it's really hard because that was such an incredible conversation to have with somebody who's just your doctor. But he was so kind and so loving and he put me on a good old antidepressant to get you through the time. That was helpful as well, and so I'm always like there are times in your life when you might need that, and he certainly helped me.
Speaker 3:I had to cut off that movie that was in. You know, that tape is playing constantly in my brain and I don't know if you remember the part in the book about the stop sign. I do. Yeah, that's where I part in the book about the stop sign. I do. Yeah, that's where I learned about that about the stop sign From your doctor. Well, no, it wasn't.
Speaker 3:I took my children to a child psychiatrist and I was a counselor. That's the first time in my life I've ever done that and she was amazing and she's the one that introduced me to the Maya Angelou quote. It says when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And I put that in my refrigerator and I'll listen to that, trust me. And but she's also one that said you are the one of the strongest women I probably have ever met in my life. You are so capable you have just hit a rock bottom of being so betrayed because that's not in your makeup. And she goes.
Speaker 3:So here's what I'm going to ask you to do I need you to start seeing a stop sign in your mind and every time you start going down that the memories of you know I'm dumb, I'm stupid. I must have been a terrible wife. You know all those things, stupid. I must have been a terrible wife. You know all those things. He goes. I want you to see a stop sign and I want you to just say in your mind, as loud as you can stop. And I might have had to do that a thousand times a day at first, but it eventually did work. And it does work. And even now, when I start kind of getting sidetracked about something negative, I just see the stop sign and I say stop and it just, it works efficiently. Yeah, but yeah, she was the one who taught me that. That better anti-depressants. You know what is it?
Speaker 2:well, that that's really. I'm a very big like visual person, so, like I love that. You know, and you mentioned I believe it was around there about like changing your internal dialogue and whatever you what you didn't like you'd work to change. You weren't educated so that you went back to school right, right, yeah, because you do it's.
Speaker 3:You know it's a battle in our minds. It'll kill us every time or just really wreck our lives. It really is, and that's why we got to train our minds to be so strong. And I believe that training any part of your personality or your mind is the same as training your body, where you go and you do leg lifts, or you go and you do arm curls, or you go and you do leg lifts, or you go and you do arm curls, or you go and you get on the treadmill. If you do that enough, your body changes. Your muscles change. Well, your mind can't. But you just have to practice it and you have to make yourself stop.
Speaker 3:I I set up all these little things in my mind for how I want and will do. For example, I started working out again after having some surgery and so I'm doing a 50 day, 50 count challenge, and so you know I don't really want to do it. But I made a promise to myself and I'm very big on keeping promises I make to myself and nobody that's. And that's where I talk, amanda, about the personal integrity. Nobody else knows if I did it or not. I talk, amanda, about the personal integrity. Nobody else knows if I did it or not, only I know. Well, guess what it's so important to me, those promises that I made, that I'm going to keep them, because it says to me everything about my own personal integrity, whether I have it or not. You know, and I always say, if you'll take care of your own personal integrity, you will not have to defend yourself to anyone else out there in society, because people will know what kind of human being you are and they will protect you themselves. And that has been proven to me over and over again. Like you know, just take care of your own personal integrity, all the rest will take care of itself.
Speaker 3:So, like the exercising, you know 50 of the push-ups and 50 of the squats, and today I was. I did them yesterday and I was sore today and I passed by my little sheet that I keep out. I went like I'm no, you made yourself a problem this. You're gonna do a 50-day challenge, so you're gonna do it. So do it, and I did. Now I'm so sore still, but you know, but I used to teach aerobics so I know about the soreness when it first starts.
Speaker 3:But anyway, those are the things, the mind. The battle in the mind is the toughest to conquer, but you have got to. You have no other choice.
Speaker 3:If you want to change your patterns, your choices, choices, the decisions, the bad ones that you've made, you've got to first of all be honest with yourself and recognize those. Like be honest, like the good, the bad and the ugly about yourself. Like you can hide from everybody else, you can hide from the world, but you cannot hide from yourself. It's eventually gonna bite you in the bottom. That just is. And you know people can blame whoever they want to. But basically I believe that you know, as an adult, every choice, every decision and every reaction you've ever had has led you exactly where you are. And if you do not like it, then change those things or they're going continue. And the only way to change patterns in your life is to be honest about what those weaknesses are and those flaws are and then working on those and then changing them. And only you can do that. Nobody else can do that for you and nobody can make you do it.
Speaker 2:That's true. I always say, like, like, keeping promises to yourself is either the fastest way or to keep or break confidence. Like, right, if you can't keep promises to yourself, like how can you keep them promise as they do? Right, like, why would you follow through with your promises to other people? Yeah, you don't follow yourself, you know. And there's no quicker way to reduce your confidence by not even if you don't realize you're reducing confidence. You know, like, over time, like saying you're going to do X, even small things, like I make my bed every single morning, I do too, like I make myself, you know back. You know back now.
Speaker 2:This was like three years ago now I feel like it's been more recent, but I made a promise to myself to run a mile every single day. I hate you, I'm not a runner and like I'm super into weight lifting. The gym weights are big fans. But one of my friends was like let's run a 5k. I'm like I fucking hate running and I'm like I'm not gonna wake up one day and run a 5k. It's not that long, could I do it technically? But I was, yeah, I, I want to be a little trained. So I was like you know what? Yeah, I'm gonna run a mile every single day for a year and I, I did it, yeah, but the the difficult, the most difficult thing was so many people in my life being like you don't have to do that today, right, yeah, you don't have to do that today, right.
Speaker 2:I asked them seven times and I'm like what are you doing? Yeah, my boyfriend at the time, all the time, he never wanted to run with me and he'd be like no one would know if you ran today. And I remember being like, like, listen, and that's even worse, right, yeah, I will know.
Speaker 3:And that's what haught me for life, wait, wait you know, that's personal integrity right there, because especially, oh, nothing would make me more upset too than no one else would ever, not. Well, I know right, you know, yeah, I mean, that's so true, I will know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just it reduces your trust in yourself, your confidence like all the things, because you've shown yourself that you don't keep your own word Right, right, right, very good, very good.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, this has been an amazing thing. Thank you so much for speaking with me. I really appreciate it. Oh my gosh, this has been an amazing thing. Thank you so much for speaking with me. I really appreciate it. Oh my gosh, I have a man named Jay Shetty. I don't think so. Okay, no worries, he's got a podcast motivational speaker. He's an author. Well, he ends his podcast episodes with two segments, and I loved them, so I started incorporating them on my podcast. The first segment is called the Many Sides to Us, and there's five questions and they need to be answered in one word each Okay, okay, what is one word someone who was meeting you for the first time would use to describe you?
Speaker 3:Authentic.
Speaker 2:Number two what is one word that someone who knows you extremely well would use to describe you?
Speaker 3:Very kind.
Speaker 2:Number three what is one word you'd use to describe yourself?
Speaker 3:Tenacious.
Speaker 2:Stubborn.
Speaker 3:Integrity stubborn.
Speaker 2:Number five what is one word you're embodying right now? Integrity. The second segment is the final five, and these can be answered in up to a sentence.
Speaker 3:Number one what is the best advice you've heard or received? Make your own decisions about your own choices and your own information about things. Don't be led around by the nose. You know be true to your own beliefs and convictions.
Speaker 2:What is the worst advice you've heard or received?
Speaker 3:We could really help them if we wanted to. Why is that the worst? Because most people don't want to be helped and most people don't recognize that.
Speaker 2:Why do you say most people?
Speaker 3:don't want to be helped, Because I believe it to be the truth. It's the old 80-20 rule. Most people want to be helped by their own standards and they don't want to be real about who they are. And really, can you really help anyone? You can assist them, but you can't help them. They have to help themselves.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 3:Okay, Number three what is something that you used to value that you no longer value? Purses, designer purses. I got a number.
Speaker 2:We could have Number four. If you could describe what you would want your legacy to be, as if someone were reading it, what would you want it to say?
Speaker 3:This is something I heard and it has stuck with me. I wish I knew who said it.
Speaker 2:I would like to live. A could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow. What would it be?
Speaker 3:And I want to know why Treat your neighbor as you would yourself, and I think it's self-explanatory Like if we all did that, all the world's problems would be solved almost immediately.
Speaker 2:That's true, I agree. Now I've got one final question for you. This is not from Jay Shetty. This is a neat question, but if you and you don't have to speak for five minutes People always ask me this but if you happen to have the attention of the whole world for five minutes, what would you say?
Speaker 3:Well, I think I would narrow it down to really the ending of my speech that I give, which is practice, faith and hope. Practice it like you're a what if? Person and a little innocent child. Know who you are and what you stand for, because if you don't know who you are, no one else will ever know who you are and you can never create the life that you want until you do know who you are. And be determined.
Speaker 3:And when you fall down, get back up over and over again, because every time you get back up you'll become stronger and you'll become more capable of believing in yourself and so will others. And then set some goals in life and some dreams, because it's your journey and you're going to have to navigate it. So plan on doing that, make a plan about it and then live with forgiveness and acceptance. You know forgiveness is bitter and it's ugly and forgiveness is for your healing. And accept where you came from Some people will appreciate it, some won't. Doesn't matter. And accept where you came from Some people will appreciate it, some won't Doesn't matter because you can define, and you should define, who you are by your own worth and your own value, and that journey might look really ugly for other people. But once you accept that and that you triumphed over it, then you should be very proud of yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, thank you so much. I appreciate you speaking with me. I love that.
Speaker 3:You're so welcome, doll Anytime.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Appreciate you having me honey, oh my gosh, of course, and thank you guys for tuning in to another episode. Thank you so much for tuning in to part two of my episode with debbie. If you want to talk to debbie further or get her book, you can get all of that information in the show notes directly, and I really hope these two episodes helped reshape and reframe your mindset around forgiveness, because every one of us have been through something that we need to forgive someone else for doing to us. Whether it's a past romantic partner, a family member, a friend, a colleague, we have all experienced something that we need to forgive someone else for. And the thing is forgiveness is not about them, it's about us. And one of the biggest things and Debbie said that really resonated with me in terms of forgiveness is you should never feel bad or shame about something that somebody else did that you would never do, whether it's a way a family member treated you. If you would never treat a family member that way, you shouldn't feel bad. If you've been cheated on a lot of us have you should not feel shame for the fact that your partner cheated on you. It's a character flaw in them, not you, and I think a lot of us get that confused. We think there was something wrong with us because somebody did this, but that's not the case. It's a character flaw in them.
Speaker 2:Another thing that Debbie said in terms of forgiveness that was really powerful was it's really helpful to understand someone's upbringing, to understand how they were raised and where they came from. That does not excuse their behavior, but it will give you some insight and help you understand more about them. It doesn't make it okay. If you remember my episode with Ada in episode 61, ada talked about this term okayness, where it's not okay, it's not good, it's not bad. Okayness, you know, in understanding someone's upbringing and how they were raised even like me, with my father, for example doesn't excuse his behavior, but it makes it a little easier for me to deal with, and understanding someone's upbringing might help you have an easier time dealing with what they did to you Doesn't excuse it, but it might make it easier for you to forgive them. Forgiving them again is not for them, forgiveness is for you, and forgiving people is a great way to shift your mindset, because you will have a better internal state if you're able to forgive people once you let go of that resentment that you are harboring and holding on to. As Debbie mentioned, bitterness looks ugly, doesn't look good. It'll give you more wrinkles quicker. Nobody wants that. So I hope this helps you. I hope this helps you reframe how you look at forgiveness and stay tuned for next week as we continue the conversation on forgiveness.
Speaker 2:And thank you, guys, so much for tuning in to another episode of Mute Mindset. I really appreciate it. In case no one told you today, I'm proud of you, I'm rooting for you and you got this, as always. If you enjoyed the show, I would really appreciate it if you would leave me a five star rating, leave a review and share it with anyone you think would benefit from this. And don't forget you are only one mindset. Shift away from shifting your life. Thanks, guys, until next time.
